For anyone else wondering-
> An accelerated processing unit (APU) is a microprocessor that combines the central processing unit (CPU) with the graphics processing unit (GPU) on a single computer chip.
APU is also technically an AMD term, Intel usually just calls them all CPUs since a lot of them have basic on-board GPUs anyway, APUs are actually somewhat decent though
The amazing thing is sometimes you can get it for cheap too lol at the end of the day it's just flashy LEDs but it is hilarious, I got my 1660 Super on an RMA and it has RGB, which is annoying because I didn't opt for a glass panel and wanted to keep things basic but I feel like the bright lights would probably annoy me eventually anyway so I keep that shit turned off if I see it.
we need another competitor. i wish Intel would figure it finally. Nvidia and AMD are raping everyone on GPU pricing and there is no justification for it except abuse of being the only market players. I refuse to pay their prices, even if it means i do not pc game anymore, or just replay older titles. My 1660TI was the best bang for the buck at the time i bought it and refuse to pay more than that for a GPU. When those high end fuckers cost as much as a macbook air or other common laptop you know they have jumped the fucking shark
>Nvidia and AMD are raping everyone on GPU pricing and there is no justification for it except abuse of being the only market players.
This is fucking stupid. Retailers are the ones that are fleecing the market. Nvidia and AMD are getting the same cut they always did. The proof is when best buy sold 3070s in person the other week, they went for normal retail price.
Look up TSMC or read my other comment in this thread and quit being ignorant. Nvidia would flood the shelves with GPUs if they could, but they don’t have the chips to do it because the world depends on one foundry for all high end chips.
Edit: I’ll add that if you actually kept up with the news about this instead of talking out your ass, you would know that Intel bought a company with three foundries. It will take them years to catch up, but they are already in the game, so is Texas Instruments.
Its not being ignorant at all. Its called long term observation. Even before the current madness their prices were high for the product delivered and they have gone up in price every single year whereas almost every other component made came down in price. Nvidia is the worst offender on this but AMD is also not blameless. Nvidia over the last 5 years has been following the old Intel playbook
No, it is being ignorant. The 3070 retail price is the same performance per dollar as the 1070. The cards get faster and go up in price, that’s nvidias prerogative. The current market of cards going for more than twice their retail price is in no way Nvidia’s fault. There is only one foundry in the world that can make these chips.
> The cards get faster and go up in price, that’s nvidias prerogative.
You just supported my whole argument. Its pure artificial pricing on nvidias part, just as Intel did. And retailers are paying x price from nvidia for the product. They are not marking that shit up like crazy because then they would be undercut by the others. That is how competitive business works. They are not colluding to set a price either. That is pure fantasy to blame that cost now all on the retailers. Their profit margins are not that great.
Supply and demand, primarily because of covid and mining , is what has driven the prices to extreme levels right now but even if the supply is there nvidia is still jacking those prices up way beyond what it costs them. been doing it for years. If you think differently you are being the ignorant one. They are doing exactly what Intel is famous for doing. AMD is the only thing keeping them somewhat in check in the consumer realm. Its even worse in the business one for professional level GPU solutions because they have no competition. To add insult to injury they add recurring licensing costs here for additional functionality.
No, the fuck they aren’t. To get the same GPU performance from the next generation means stepping down in card tiers. A 3070 replaces a 2080 which replaces a 1080ti. A 3070 and 2070 are not equivalent and shouldn’t cost the same price.
You don’t even know why there is a shortage of all cards right now. Please don’t tell me you are stupid enough to think Nvidia would leave money on the table to fleece a handful of cards because that is just fucking stupid. They tried to stem the tide from miners by locking them out unless they bought mining cards, but the problem isn’t Nvidia, it’s TSMC who is the sole supplier for Nvidia.
Quit buying into this ignorant hype that’s based on stupidity. They would be selling GPUs at gas stations if they had the silicon to put in them. If you divide the computer performance in tflops by the price and plot it over the life of the GTX and RTX lines you would see that the retail price has lagged performance by a little bit. It gets cheaper to buy the same performance each generation.
Prices are high because of scalping by retailers unless you want to claim that best buy was selling cards in person a week ago for less than they paid for them.
Same reason car dealers can. Because they get incentives at special times to do so and they are a volume seller. Dont be surprised if amazon does something similar. Its Not rocket science. They were also selling at msrp which is already higher than retail normally would be.
Supply is also increasing now as it is in many other industries (guns and ammo) with prices slowly coming back down. Does not change the fact that nvidia is still acting like a monopoly with their pricing and with it going up generation by generation. There is a great analysis of it in this old reddit thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ih6gvd/analysis_of_nvidia_gpu_prices_over_time_or_why_is/
>I've opted not to update the MSRP of the GPUs, many models did get price reductions over their lifetime, but it would be a pain to go back and determine exactly when certain models were cost reduced in order to recalculate.
So his analysis is bullshit. Also, there isn’t a car dealer on this planet who sells cars for less than they pay for them. You’re just trolling or a complete moron if that’s your take.
The fact is Nvidia hasn’t marked up prices excessively, retailers have. Best Buy’s own sale proved that because they aren’t going to lose money on the most scarce device on the planet. The card performance per dollar has tracked steady over the years unless some lazy fuckwit twists the numbers to their favor. The shortage is caused by disasters at TSMC and not GPU makers artificially holding down supply.
https://wccftech.com/tsmc-550-million-blunder-destroyed-thousands-of-nvidia-gpu-wafers/
https://m.slashdot.org/story/370680
It’s not just high end chips that are in short supply either.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/michael-dell-says-chip-shortages-will-probably-last-for-years
> Also, there isn’t a car dealer on this planet who sells cars for less than they pay for them
Have you ever sold cars? I have. This happens all the time and the reason is simple for new cars. Factory Incentives. For example if a dealer sells x amount per month they get a huge bonus . this bonus far offsets any difference in loss by very large amounts. This is why you hear stories such as the best time to buy a car is this or that. Dealers are trying to get those quotas for these bonuses. It does not mean they sell all cars under cost either just some here and there. And they also sell others to people who don't negotiate and pay msrp or take stupid dealer loans, of which dealers also get cuts
And you have still missed the whole point of everything I said. All I said is that nvidia acts like a monopoly and raises their prices every generation which is a fact, and happens at all model levels gen to gen. Those prices determine what retailers can sell them at with supply/demand considerations, such as we have seen the last year with low supply and high demand. This is economics 101. This environment can cause scalping as well from some sellers. the GPU market isn't the only market this has happened in. Every tangible product has seen this since covid, such as
- firearms and ammo
- cars and trucks, as well as parts for repairs. Ford for example has fields of f-150 trucks they cannot complete because of lack of components and available inventory sells for much higher than normal
- lumber
- appliances
- roofing materials
and on and on
If you cannot comprehend this then I don't know what to tell you
>Factory Incentives.
There are no factory incentives for graphics card, brainlet. Also, that means the car dealerships aren’t selling for a loss since they get money on the back side so you just proved best buy didn’t sell GPUs for a loss which proves the retail price hasn’t changed. Good job.
>raises their prices every generation which is a fact, and happens at all model levels gen to gen
Why should a higher performing card cost the same each generation? You keep missing the point that equivalent compute performance generation to generation is cheaper. If you buy the same performance with a new generation it is cheaper full stop. If you buy the same tier of card, then you get more performance which costs more.
There is nothing going on from Nvidia. This is a supply chain problem, like everything else you listed. Firearms makers aren’t charging more for guns, sellers are. Ammo makers are paying more for raw materials, they aren’t fleecing the market. Appliances and cars have the same chip shortages as computers and electronics, they aren’t making more money per item.
You’re just a moron who is doubling down on the Nvidia circle jerk when you have no clue what is causing the disruption. Nvidia isn’t leaving money on the table to jack prices on a handful of cards while literally the entire world complains. That is just pants on head retarded.
As I said before I would agree with you but we would both be wrong. Double down on stupid all you want. I don't care. Your immediate resorting to attempts at insult instead of honest debating says all I need to know about you. The fact remains that nvidia is acting like a monopoly and has been for years. AMD has joined this game as well, because they can, as these two are the only players in this market. Apparently you are the only one that does not know this.
You’re a dishonest loser who ignores facts that aren’t convenient.
Fact. The same compute performance costs less each generation from AMD and Nvidia. This is indisputable.
Fact. Nvidia never changed their MSRP as a result of the chip shortage. This was unequivocally proven by Best Buy last week.
Fact. AMD, Nvidia, and dozens more companies including automakers are unable to get the raw materials they need to make their devices. This is indisputable.
You’re a dishonest troll trying to push a narrative based in bullshit. Anyone that reads this thread and does the most basic google search will see right through your nonsense.
You provided zero facts and presented your opinion instead which is demonstrably ignorant of reality and economics. Then you started trying to be an insulting little shit when I didn't by into the bullshit you were trying to sell. So no I am not going to continue arguing with you. Its pointless and like arguing with a brain dead leftist, which you likely are.
I did present facts and links. You and you faggot cabal chose to ignore that and called me names instead. Now you’re doing the same thing because you got nothing but baseless memes.
There is no conspiracy by Nvidia. This circle jerk is based in bullshit. I dare you to address the facts and links I’ve posted. You and your cabal can’t bully me into silence because you are all full of shit.
You can’t prove Nvidia increased their prices after launch because it never happened.
You can’t prove Nvidia is holding supply down because their own press releases and financial statements say the opposite of that. They would ship more cards if they had the supply.
You can’t prove that Nvidia charges more for the same performance each generation because the opposite is true. In fact, they discount their older cards to keep them in line with the price to performance of the current generation.
If you want to take a swing where your butt buddy failed, step up.
This is the last time I humor you
> There is no conspiracy by Nvidia. This circle jerk is based in bullshit. I dare you to address the facts and links I’ve posted. You and your cabal can’t bully me into silence because you are all full of shit.
No where did I claim this. I said nvidia acts as a monopoly which is true. I suggest you get back on your meds because you are losing it.
> You can’t prove Nvidia increased their prices after launch because it never happened.
Never said they did. I said they increase prices for each new release of cards at all levels compared to release price of the previous gens. This is also true and easily shown .
> You can’t prove Nvidia is holding supply down because their own press releases and financial statements say the opposite of that. They would ship more cards if they had the supply.
Never said this or implied this. I said CORRECTLY that supply and demand have been strongly impacted by covid and other factors JUST AS EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY has.
> You can’t prove that Nvidia charges more for the same performance each generation because the opposite is true. In fact, they discount their older cards to keep them in line with the price to performance of the current generation.
Never said they did. I said they increase prices for each new release of cards at all levels compared to release price of the previous gens. This is also true and easily shown .
So my advice is get back on your meds, learn reading comprehension, and shut the fuck up because you are a fucking idiot
>I said nvidia acts as a monopoly which is true
So AMD doesn’t exist and doesn’t produce cards that directly compete with Nvidia? How stupid are you?
>I said they increase prices for each new release of cards at all levels compared to release price of the previous gens
That’s because the performance increases. What you’re missing is the *same* performance in the new generation costs less because the lower tier cards replace higher tier cards from the previous generation. Why should you get a better card for the same money when they sell the same performance from last generation for less?
>I said CORRECTLY that supply and demand have been strongly impacted by covid and other factors JUST AS EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY has.
Covid has nothing to do with this.
>other factors
Those other factors are the main factor and it’s TSMC. TSMC was not affected by covid at all because the entire plant is automated. Hardly anyone actually works in the factory. I posted links that explain exactly what happened and why they are behind. You chose to ignore those facts because they didn’t fit your narrative.
> I said they increase prices for each new release of cards at all levels compared to release price of the previous gens.
Why should you get more performance for the same money when they offer the same performance for less money? Your argument makes no sense and ignores the fact that a 3070 replaces a 2080 which replaces a 1080ti. A 1080ti msrp is $699. A 3070 msrp is $599. A 3070 outperforms a 1080ti. You get a little more performance for less each generation.
Not dodging at all. You are trying to argue against things I never said or implied because you are literally too stupid to understand the English language. That is your problem. Not mine. Ignorance is fixable but stupidity is forever. And as I said repeatedly now, I am done with you. Next reply from you results in a block. Life is too short to deal with dumbasses .
What happened to you? If Nvidia is setting the price, why did best buy sell cards last week for less than everyone else? Did they just lose money on purpose? Based on what you said, the only explanation is that best buy lost money on purpose.
That’s an ignorant take that ignores the current market. If you could buy a 3070 for what it should retail for, the steam deck wouldn’t be nearly as big a deal. Even low end cards are going for twice their value because the industry has relied on TSMC for decades and never thought it would go sideways like it has. TSMC won’t begin to recover from their backlog until at least the middle of next year, which coincidentally is when the mid and high end steam deck will ship, at the earliest. It will take them another year to catch up at current demand levels. Intel and TI are half a decade away from any sort of relevance. The steam deck APU is obviously coming from the new process line at TSMC that comes online this fall.
A portable PC that is way below the market price for equivalent GPU power selling like hot cakes isn’t a bellwether of customer acceptance, it’s 5th grade economics.
Edit: you dumb fucks really think there is a shortage because nvidia wants to fleece you on the trickle of cards they can produce? Y’all stupid.
we'll see, but i don't completely buy the notion of low end GPU's disappearing any time soon. lots of times there are going to be non-gamers who just want a cheap $20 card that can drive 2-3 monitors with the connectors of their choosing.
same. him and heroicmessage_000 both have it out for me reasons i dont even know, technicholy talked about backing me into a corner so i would undermine my position whatever that means, he was following me around making comments on 3 of my posts after taking his first L. these people wander around looking to argue, dont waste your time feeding them replies, technicholy thinks hes always right and heroicmessage_000's logic is "everyone i dont like is either a hijacker (dudes making up his own terms for people lmao), a rdrama member or from *the cabal*." for some reason they think me and you are close buds when this is like the 2nd/ 3rd time weve ever talked lmao.
That's not necessarily a bad thing though, as CPUs have become so powerful now they can run most games on low end graphics fairly comfortably manufacturers now have a proof of concept for consumers to play around with and if you're just looking to make tiny PCs without having to stuff in a chunky graphics card that's fantastic. This also means that graphics card manufacturers can focus on making better mid-tier or higher graphics card than constantly churning out dirt cheap low end card that I'm sceptical of how many people buy anyway. In my view at least this is one of those moments where I'm very glad they're going to be potentially making that sort of thing obsolete. It seems that a lot of PC component manufacturing now is revolving around making parts as small and efficient as possible and I love that, see the evolution of SSDs as an example where they're continually moving away from idiotically large and chunky designs to making 1tb - 2tb hard drives that are the size of a RAM stick. I've already been pretty amazed at how cheap and tiny a low end raspberry pi is, these kind of PCs might end up being better options than laptops because of customisability.
> This also means that graphics card manufacturers can focus on making better mid-tier or higher graphics card than constantly churning out dirt cheap low end card that I'm sceptical of how many people buy anyway.
It’s a silicon lottery; when hardware is produced some is damaged and that gets turned into lower end cards, silicon which is near perfect gets put into the higher end models, naturally they will always have to produce low end cards.
Maybe this problem will be resolved or the bad parts get repurposed somehow idk. As we approach the hardware limits, it’s becoming more apparent that software is holding us back, just yesterday I came across [this video](https://youtu.be/iPwDB0s-lDQ) which shows a RX580 coming close to GTX1070 in performance after a year of driver updates 🤯
Not sure if the drivers were specifically made for that card, maybe every GPU within a range has the same drivers. If so we could see performance increases across the board, with the bigger impact on low end hardware because someone with the best GPU isn’t going to notice a few more frames.
Steam hardware stats show that most people have low and mid tier cards and high end is always a minority. I remember the 480 and 1060 were very popular with many people still having them, they still appear on the steam hardware stats with decent numbers.
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