You don't see the irony of the Democrats trying to imprison their main competitor and all of his allies on the grounds that he's a "threat to democracy"?
The democrats aren't involved at all. Trump was indicted by our justice systems by juries of his peers in grand juries and will be convicted by the same if he chooses jury trials. The real question is, how could anyone get this far into life without understanding how the basics of our justice system worse. And, then to follow up, why would anyone respect said person's opinion on the matter?
Most of the grand juries likely didn't even know who they were indicting - the suspect's name is often redacted. Many of the judges overseeing the legal proceedings are Trump appointees.
He is [hella fucked](https://youtu.be/Y44fyh4ap7k?si=CypYsF91NxsvJq05). The feds have a conviction rate of over %95 when they indict and courts aren't far behind. Especially in RICO crimes. Prison jumper fucked. lol.
Don't bother with facts or reason with these people. They just downvote you for saying what they don't like and then continue to pretend reality is really the lies they're told. It's honestly sad how indoctrinated some people have allowed themselves to be.
Where did that happen? Oh I see! it's only in the head off pissy assed liberals so it must be the truth so let's imprison people for years with no trials..very democratic I'm sure🖕🖕🖕
Where did that not happen would be the question grounded in reality. He lost a free and fair election. Ignored the courts. People died for him, he abandoned them. If the election had been stolen none of you would have stopped. You know you got played.
The entire process went off without a hitch, and Trump even said to “make your voices heard peacefully” after he heard things were getting out of hand. Even told them to go home.
Shittiest takeover I’ve ever heard of.
They weren't the ones declaring him King. They were just the muscle. The fake alternate electors were supposed to coronate him. The military would have suppressed riots. When they all failed he turned to the mob.
You don't need to argue with me, they have his emails and text messages where the plot was all laid out for everyone to read. A criminal conspiracy that they documented themselves. Very helpful of them.
Donald Trump doesn't use email, though? Where did you read he wrote confessions of organizing an army to overthrow the government? I would stop using that subreddit for information if I were you.
You rigged the election and it will all come to light, you spied on a sitting president and that's been in plain sight and just this week more comes out. The police murdered Ashli Babette and not one policeman died of any violence on that day...the democrats are shit scared of trump because if he gets in their whole FBI, CIA, court cheating asses will be toast...I'm guessing hunters laptop is now real too according to your lying puppets who covered it up... Trump has the files on all of it and they fear it! Liberal tears on election day will be divine!!!!!
By stopping the vote rigging machines...see the Georgia case for the reality. Cheating is going to be harder for you this time. I guess you did counter it with the illegals you have brought in though just so they can be given a vote and in due course wreck your sanctuary cities... Yes we are voting against fascism. See Ukraine!
Well yeah but the deep state runs everything right? Why live under fascism for four years? Why did all those cowards on TV just drop the issue? Were they lying or just sackless punks?
There's no such thing as alternate electors. Just traitors who sold out their country and duped useful idiots into attacking the capital. They were ready to hang mike pence. A bunch of them died for the cause. Then he just dropped it.
"Everybody else must be just has bad as this guy because if I stop pretending that's true, I will have to face the ethical ramifications of my behavior"
That, despite being allegedly committed over many years, all suddenly are charged at the same time during the start of the election when he's the main frontrunner to Biden? That is quite a coincidence.
And Trump is the master at appealing and kicking things back in court. These investigations did start while he was in office, but Trump pays lawyers to stall and delay indefinitely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_investigations_of_The_Trump_Organization#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%202022%2C%20Engoron,%5D%20between%202011%20and%202021%22.
Where have you been? They started investigating (and attacking him) back in 2016 after they realized he would
Actually be a threat to the establishment.
They all happened to get ready right at the same time, after years investigating varied alleged crimes? Crimes which varied in complexity and alleged dates, and some of which allegedly occurred before he entered office?
What crimes?
The one where the bank agreed with Trump's estimates and he repaid the loan in full?
Or the one when he told people to peacefully protest?
Or my personal favorite, when he tried to expose Biden's corruption in Ukraine?
Interesting . . . . Before Trump came into prominence, I never knew anybody could have around 3,500 active court case against them. Everything from wage violations, safety violations, breeches of contract, non-payment, fraud, rape, forcible rape of a child, sex trafficking, tax fraud and a whole host of others.
Normally, if it was one or two prosecutors, I would agree with statements like yours. When it both political parties here in the states, and multiple countries with multiple prosecutors for each country, all pressing civil and criminal charges.
I'mma going to think it the guy who flim-flaming everybody, especially low IQ people.
I don't think it going to be a problem, rumor has it Putin has ordered Tea for Trump. (dead serious, Pravada 16 Feb 2024)
Courts are not “democrats”. Do you not see the problem of totally absolving people of responsibility for crimes and liabilities if they claim political attack?
Well, Dumptruck *is* threat to democracy. After he lost an election he cried like a bitch (which isn't the threat - just shameful) and convinced millions of people it was a conspiracy. And the fact that there was no evidence? Or all the evidence he had turned out to be fake? Just more conspiracy. Not to mention sending his mob to "fight like hell" and attempt to stop the electoral college certification.
But people are trying to imprison him because he has *broken numerous laws.*
Can you honestly say you think he hasn't broken the law?
Remember, reddit is like 90% children and younger people w little to no life experience. It’s why every reaction is so extreme and every drama means divorce or abuse or whatever
In my experience, it's more 45% children and younger people w little to no life experience and 45% adults who act like children and/or very out of touch with how the world works.
r/libertarian probably deals with a lot of left leaning grifters that argue in bad faith about why the lolberts should be voting for democrats instead of republicans
No, there's definitely a trend of banning libertarians for saying they don't like right wing things. Social Right Mises Moderators took over a while back and are purifying the sub.
Who's voting for Biden? Not me, not the OP as they stated. Doesn't seem like they're advocating to vote for Biden when they flat out say they're voting third party.
I disagree with the OPs argument and find the DNC to be far more dangerous to "our democracy" than Trump. Were I not banned and saw that post I'd have stated such.
I’d have loved that exchange, actually. That’s what we’re supposed to do here, is bounce ideas off of each other. I do worry about a second trump presidency, much more than a continued Democratic presidency. I’ve typically ignored both and voted my conscience. I specifically reregistered libertarian and vote libertarian because ballot access will never change until the numbers are higher. Would have loved to have had a pragmatic, intellectual exchange on this topic.
I wouldn't go that far. We may be getting forced out of the libertarian sub, but who we are hasn't changed. We just have assholes wearing our name/party like a skin suit. I'm hoping we can get it back.
There's a whole conspiracy theory that this may be a set up to help Trump get elected as it appears the Mises takeover was funded in part by a Trump donor. If that's the case they'll probably toss the body out the trunk after 2024 and we can revive it. That said, the social right regularly tries to align themselves with pro-liberty movements and then corrupts them when they get enough people in the door so, who knows, they may stay.
I heard of a news story reporting that a lot of reddit subs are being modded by Russia-based accounts, and are banning people for anything construed as anti-Trump, anyi-Russia or anti-Putin.
Ah , love it when the libertarians close down free speech. I have a friend who describes himself as libertarian and he repeatedly says that he wants the police to do this,the court to punish that. Erm..... That's the state, mate
Kinda like Milei cracking down on worker's rights, women's rights, and abortion. The "libertarian" hero, funded by a billonaire and pushing alt right culture bullshit.
A story as old as time.
Your reading comprehension is poor even before i made the correction. This response wasn't warranted. You're literally just trying to affirm your own belief.
Me too. There has definitely been a shift in Libertarianism in recent years. Personally, it started feeling different to me around 2008, when they started adopting Tea Party points.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
They’ve literally put out a plan to transform our democracy. If you don’t read that and see it as a threat to a free democracy, you’re either willfully ignorant or supporting this.
Trying to follow your logic. Are you suggesting that if democracy elects Trump, Biden should deny the election and therefore deny democracy to protect democracy?
No logic, I wasn’t the OP, it was a buried off-handed comment on someone else’s post. I didn’t give it a thought. I merely thought out loud. That’s why I was shocked when I got the ban and had to go back and find the offending post and ask for clarification from the mods. I won’t vote for trump, but can’t say I’ll vote for Biden - I’ll probably vote libertarian again - not that any of that should matter.
The funny thing is if a Leftwinger used the same logic you're using, you'd call them an authoritarian, you're unironically doing the "It's OK when I do it argument" you're complete hypocrite & have no right to be on this sub or ever complain about getting censored.
You've decided what I would say in your hypothetical discussing, told me it's a bad argument labeled me a hypocrite, and said I shouldn't be in this subreddit. And you're doing all of this unironically, just as you're accusing me of doing in your imaginary scenario.
If I'm calling lies a matter of opinion, making ad hominem attacks, and distracting and deflecting from the actual subject that was being discussed, someone really should confront such behavior.
You're doing all of that. I'm done engaging with this behavior from you. Have a great day.
You’re entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. I personally believe it’s the democrats who are obviously the threat to democracy through their actions. There are numerous unprecedented legal actions that are a violation of ethics but they’re the ones that don’t care about so called democracy. They lie and their supporters carry the torch. But here’s a thought OP. Neither of us are 100% correct and are just supporting the side we chose. I support Trumps policies not the man. Some people are propping up a democrat party that is making a mockery of our justice system. Both of us are allowing some issues to slide because of what we care about. Trump the man is some of the things he’s accused of but he was an amazing president because of his leadership, policies and no new wars. Biden on the other hand is a dementia puppet ruining our country. Fact is Ukraine is a money pit supporting the military industrial complex as dementia Joe and other career politicians dump money into it. This wouldn’t have happened under Trump. Our border would be secured and everything would be cheaper as we would be energy independent. It’s not that hard to understand yet…….
Because "threat to our democracy" is a dog whistle. They ain't talking to you or I, they are talking about a threat to the status quo. A threat to their ability to rob us with no backlash, run up the debt, and have zero accountability. It's a threat to their power, and a threat to the money being transferred from the public sector into the private hands of billionaires and special interests. It's a threat to corporate welfare and bank bailouts. A threat to foreign interests. All who hold power over our politicians. When they speak to us, it's excuses and empty promises. When they speak about democracy and threats, it's to the donor class.
Trump was just a billionaire who got bold and cut out the middle man. He was a threat because he could care less about anyone but himself, and his rich and powerful friends. He was so apathetic that he was spilling the beans on live television on how they use the system that is designed for them, to get away with the things they do. Besides him, they all flaunt their double standards, and their second tier laws that only apply to us and not them. They make it blatant who they represent when you follow our tax dollars. 🤷🏾♂️
Mises Caucus: “The LP needs to be edgy and radical in order to spread the message and draw people in.”
Also Mises Caucus: “We need to ban any voice we’re afraid might not be radical enough … to draw people in…?”
I used to think that was just a casual insult to throw at people, but then my dad decided he was a libertarian. After endless hours of talking to him about it and seeing the absurd logical gaps in his thinking, I started looking at the movement a bit closer.
I'd say *maybe* 10% are "true" libertarians. The rest just want rules for other people but not for them. My dad is certainly the latter.
I was permabanned from r/libertarian last month for the following post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/194di3m/thoughts_on_the_pending_decision/khfkuxk/
I was also muted for 28 days after I asked why I was banned (they said I violated rule 1.
After having the mute expired, I again inquired why I was banned, and I asked to be unbanned. Here is the response:
> Who said that comment is what you were banned for? Regardless, your appeal has been denied under Rule 1. We consider this to be closed, so please stop messaging us.
r/libertarian is no longer libertarian, it is an authoritarian sub that practices censorship, going against what libertarianism actually means.
Keep in mind I was subscribed to that sub for over 10 years, and participated in it quite a lot around 2016 when Gary Johnson was the nominee. I even voted for the LP in 2012 and 2016 it all of the races that they were in, including president.
Well, your comment is clearly a Marxist troll advocating against libertarian candidates. /s
Those guys are just ridiculous (In the literal sense of being deserving of ridicule).
Overbroad rule 1. Also, their literal pin post is about a book called "Democracy: A God that Failed"
I don't know about you, but if any politics sub endorsed a guy advocating for literal monarchies, I'm gonna find that hella sus.
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Are you an actual Libertarian or one of the new “libertarians” who are simply Republicans who own bongs and don’t want to own their actual right wing political affiliation? Because r/libertarian are the latter.
It's a widely debated philosophical topic, but liberal values and freedom of speech justify restrictions upon the speech and action of those who attack and threaten liberal values and freedom of speech.
What was rule 1? I can disagree with your opinion, but it doesn't seem ban worthy. Yet here we are on Reddit lol. I've been banned for saying the most benign things imaginable
Anti libertarian trolling. (Marxism, fascism, etc).
I tried posting a screenshot or copying the text to paste here but can’t figure out how to do that (is it a mobile user restriction?)
Ok gotcha. I guess their knee jerk reaction was to mash the ban button because that phrase is such a common one from the fascists, but if you were trying to make a cognizant point, I'm sorry it was repressed. Yeah the mobile apps sometimes don't allow copying text, that's super annoying too man
Hopefully not too flippant here, but from what I've seen, isn't libertarian just "republican but, maybe likes weed, and (somehow) hates poor people more than regular republicans" (and also maybe is little too concerned with the age of consent) . If that's not you, I don't know that I'd engage in earnest with that "ideology".
No. I wouldn’t say that is accurate at all. There is a lot of infighting and litmus tests, but I think the best broad brush would be [Classical Liberalism](https://www.britannica.com/topic/classical-liberalism) as distinguished from [Social Liberalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism), which is what we usually mean when we talk about Liberalism in post Great Depression America. Think of Jefferson, Rousseau, Locke, Adam Smith, Kant, Thomas Paine (Thomas Paine is often the poster child for modern libertarianism).
That’s part of why this ban is so frustrating. The libertarian name is being ruined by assholes who are trump shills or anarchists, and they just keep declaring an ever increasing number of people as “not libertarian”.
It’s reminiscent of what happened to the Republican Party from the 1970s on when they started to shift away protectors of civil rights to the exclusionary “morale majority” in the name of social conservatism.
The worst people and organizations will continue to shift definitions of things until they are meaningless to the common person. We, as people, must refuse to fall into these discourse traps by dropping terms entirely when they become dog whistles. That may include what we consider the umbrellas under which our views might previously have been aptly described.
I am literally a Catholic and yet r/Catholicism banned me for saying Pope Francis is a heretic and when I challenged the action they sent me abusive messages.
False. Francis has not made one single statement that qualifies under papal infallibility. Francis has let go out numerous scandalous doctrinal statements as Pope.
I'm not talking about popes being sinful.
I'm talking about how multiple times in history popes have been declared heretics or even anti-popes (AKA popes of the anti-christ).
It's less about saying the papal office is fallible and more about saying that this particular pope is an agent of Satan.
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