So you think you know better than the majority of scientists.
[https://www.science.org/content/article/virologists-and-epidemiologists-back-natural-origin-covid-19-survey-suggests](https://www.science.org/content/article/virologists-and-epidemiologists-back-natural-origin-covid-19-survey-suggests#:~:text=The%20report%2C%20posted%20online%20on,lab%20studying%20or%20manipulating%20coronaviruses)
Yeah, they're totally the ones with the blinders, not you!
I think about this all the time hah, how great it would be if we could get a (good) alternative. But yeah, at least it's still great for niche topics or finding actual human responses for search results & not the shit AI generated articles gunking up Google
Really, it seems like it's mainly the mainstream subs that suck so bad. Sometimes I wonder if it's all just a huge psyop to make us hate each other or something. You'll see someone say the most outlandish thing, think they're crazy, then see the rest of the comments echoing the same lol
Honestly imagine if Israel/AIPAC and Iran/Qatar teamed up together on the crazyyyy amount of bot farming they all do. They could convince Americans to buy sand if they lived at the beach lol
>I wonder if it's all just a huge psyop to make us hate each other
I'm convinced that whatever powers are actually running world politics had it figured out a long time ago that social media is a perfect tool to foment division and to keep us distracted from the things we should be looking at closely.
well, the elites loved putting on executions for the peasents, and weddings and crap when there wasnt cinema, then there was the church who kidnapped people when they said stuff that violated church community guidelines and they were never seen again, so basically, same shit different tech, meanwhile they make money through corruption and send peasents to kill other peasents in their wars over land or a princess or bs, not much has changed really
>not much has changed really
What's changed is how much of it is in out faces now, thanks to the Internet. It's overwhelming. Before the Internet, national and worldwide news didn't include all the relatively inconsequential stories that we see now. A 12 car pileup in Norway didn't matter to someone living in Los Angeles. A minor celebrity diagnosed as being bi-polar wasn't newsworthy. But now, even stories like that will elicit opinions, with the requisite counter opinions.
im pretty sure everyone before the internet thought you were just a moody twat if you had bipolar and moved on lol, in germany i think they have a saying that basically is "the sky is always falling", also we now realise that 70% of the world population, are at best, complete idiots, and they have social media to spout their idiocy, case and point, me, now on reddit lol
>we now realise that 70% of the world population, are at best, complete idiots, and they have social media to spout their idiocy
That was my point. That's what's changed.
Yeah we can't even disagree on silly things with each other without devolving into insults. I follow a lot of game of thrones subs and my God The fandom has become so unhinged. You have the people in the house of the Dragon subs that are actually advocating that the bastard characters be murdered for being bastards despite the fact that our favorite character in the books and show is a bastard.
I mean for God's sake there are two separate House of the Dragon subreddits that actually pick a side in the dancing dragons. You know the exact thing that the book illustrates very clearly is on awful thing to just blindly take sides.
It is this. It's been proven already that bots are used by other countries to sew discontent in the US through all social media platforms. It's been ramping up more and more lately as the election gets closer.
I think domestic companies are using bots to create a false consensus. The issue with mods banning people though is a whole different level of depravity.
Yep. They're the echo chamber. I got banned from like 7 different subs for breaking the posting rules. When I asked what rule I broke specifically, all I kept getting was an auto response that continuing to contact the mods was harassment and could get me banned from reddit altogether.
Funfact: I've been online since it started, 1993.
EVERY forum becomes an echo chamber to one degree or another.
It has NOTHING to do with the platform and everything to do with
a. human being
b. the fact that moderators always become power abusing assholes
You’ve successfully described social media.
X party does this and we should hate them for it. Y party says this and so we need to hate them back.
Scary religion X means we should hate these people in this country.
just talk to your neighbors.
We have differences but those are unreconcilable.
We need unity as there actively are two ground wars going on and a third about to kick off.
I buy and sell stuff on reddit frequently, and it pushes me nonsensical posts that aggravate me to no end. I mute/silence/ignore multiple subs every day but the algorithm knows what to show me to drag me into conversations with morons while I’m just trying to conduct business.
I don't think there **can be** a good alternative.
Echo chambers form naturally on places like this because people tend to stick to groups they agree with.
Reddit used to be a lot better. It took a sharp decline a few years ago. Now it feels like all I respond to are bots, tolls and stupids.
Not sure what changed but I know it's changed into a giant dooky.
Same here. You can look through my subs and realize what I'm primarily here for is recipes and art advice.
Reddit of course, being a thinly veiled shitlib propaganda dissemination system, "suggests" these threads and communities to you and I, because it's main purpose is to manufacture consensus.
I mean shit, the very system of upvotes and downvotes is designed to reward politically correct groupthink and punish dissidents.
I feel ya. I'm just here for stock gambling and alien shit. A majority of everything else is so bitter and toxic. Can't believe people choose to live like that.
That's why I use it mostly to fling shit. It's preposterous how many idiots can be on the mod teams. I've heard x is much more wild but I can't imagine a platform that advocates for censorship and overtly bad information.
I remember I once got banned from the gaming circle jerk sub because somebody was shit talking southernq people and as someone from the very deep south of Georgia I took offense that sarcastically replied oh yeah because we all know southern people are all just inbred Hicks right? And the moderators banned me for hateful speech towards a group of people. And then when I messaged them and asked are you guys fucking serious right now I was being sarcastic they never responded to me
Yup. I got perma banned from politics and pic for saying the shot didn’t stop you from getting it, or giving it to others and boom perma banned even tho the CDC said the same thing. There are some right leaning subs but the vast majority of subs and users/moderators are far left zealots that will either gang up and get the comment removed or flat out ban the other side from even speaking. It’s ironically fascist of them while the accuse everyone else on the right of being one
I know but as long as you’re aware it doesn’t hurt you, they are in a delusion that everything they say is right, I know something i say are wrong (no matter who you are you’ve been wrong at one point) and that’s what makes me aware
Im pretty close to quitting, i dead ass get laughed at when i say i use this app, its gotten such a horrid rep in the last 3 years.
Only useful for tech support
When I seen a woman asked AITA when she made her son change rooms because older sis was coming back and the overwhelming majority was saying she was. I then knew what a shitty site this is, it is overrun with spoiled children. I was in awe and could never trust Reddit again.
It's only bad when you go around some of the political sites. Most people on here want full discussion but others seem to only want you to hear parts. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong but if you get your news from one source you will always be uneducated. Since MAGA took over X it's unusable. Say the wrong thing and you're banned, I'm a hardcore independent that's tired of the two sided crying going on and wondering where the people are that understand for this country to survive we all need to give a little. As far as feeling dirty it's ok to leave. Instead of showing hate maybe your party's accomplishments would be nice. Hate is going to destroy this country and if you have children and grandchildren why would you want this for them. That is who you should be thinking of and one last thing. The only way to make a change is to get out there and do and stop the whining
yea believing that the NIH and CCP acted inappropriately while studying viruses is the true road to racism.
Thinking that Chinese people are disease ridden from their culinary practices is not racist, nor would lead to racism.
/s for the clueless.
Honestly, if the mod had provided evidence that I was wrong and deleted my comment, I would have totally accepted that. But “trust me bro” is not a source and there was no reason to ban me.
We should be able to critically identify valid and invalid sources.
Peer-reviewed journals, first-hand sources, court documents, and major news outlets are examples of valid sources of information. Even then, we can examine each source critically. A major news outlet may qualify reporting with "According to police" or "critics claim".
The Babylon Bee, the Onion, and The Chaser are satirical news sites. They're not valid sources.
Much of social media, 4chan, anonymous sources, gossip, hearsay, third-hand accounts are unreliable sources.
Yes, but should not we leave that identification process to the person reading the source? Because the problem is in your first sentence... who is "we?"
I'm fine if the "we" is just us people, deciding for ourselves. If "we" is some chosen entity, then I'm not.
"The current..... zoonotic" is a correct statement and is broad so doesn't require a source. Also, keep in mind that something from a .gov website does not indicate that it reflects government policy or that it is the official position of the US government, just the other day somebody sent me an article from a .gov website claiming that aluminum in vaccines causes autism.
Still, you shouldn't have been banned, you clearly triggered the mod lol
Like I said. If the mod team had just showed me that what I had learned had been debunked or disproven, I wouldn’t have minded at all. Banning for wrongthink is bullshit.
But that's a problem too, you shouldn't be banned for being wrong. You have the right to our what you found out there, the people reading it have the right to agree or research and debunk. Mods should only be involved if someone is being harassed, threatened, etc...
I got banned out of a sub for racist talk after saying people were behaving like animals. I didn't mention any race or make a statement about any particular individual. Just a fucking joke
Got bnned from my country's sub for "islamophobic comments."
What did i say?
That my country shouldn't align itself with evil dictatorships, referring to China and Russia, i even dit an edit and comments specifying i am referring to those 2.
But the Mod decided i was talking about Palestine and banned me
The opinions of the House Oversight Committee, or any congressional committee, do not represent overarching official opinion of the U.S. Government. The full House never even took a symbolic vote on this, let alone one that would impact policy. The official position is determined by the Executive, informed by subordinate agencies. In this case, even all the overwhelming resources of the IC could not come to any kind of consensus on this topic. To present one argument as an official position is therefore misinformation.
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf
There it is. The 64,000 ruble question. We are being trolled and controlled, they want us in the fold. To fit the mold. You gotta be bold. Do what you're told. We've all been sold.
The House Oversight Committee is not a reliable source, currently it's just a bunch of Republicans putting out statements that reflect their party's favorite propaganda talking points.
I'd stick with scientific sources at the very least.
" There is no evidence SARS-CoV-2 existed in any laboratory prior to the pandemic,\[59\]\[60\]\[61\] or that any suspicious biosecurity incidents happened in any laboratory"
You're free to delete it.
Statements that come out of committees of the US House of Representatives are not official government statements, they are political statements by the loony Republicans in control of that body.
I thought that oft-repeated quote of "*$44B wasn't the cost of buying Twitter, it was the cost of restoring free speech"* was cringe.
I don't think so anymore.
except its total bullshit I was banned from twtter after he bought it for calling him a pedo guy- exact quote of what he said about the cave diver that sued him.
And I’m sure you do since you really care that you got banned, just like I’m sure Elon seen that tweet and decided to ban you personally. Cope harder commie
You’re acting like he’s screening for that exact phrase lol. Obviously bots automate it and flag things but I’d assume humans have the final say, if not you can appeal it because bots make mistakes. Also Slava Ukraini you communist
Leans left is a massive understatement. The r/news (news, good old bland news) deleted many of my posts and comments from news sources the all powerful moderators didn’t agree with.
I am willing to bet that there has not been ONE neutral, let alone vaguely positive, article about the Trump admin over 8 years.
Reddit is a shithole as one of the commenters says.
I mean you could say that and you would probably be wrong but I'm not going to look through the past 8 years of Reddit to prove it.
I've been banned from left and right subreddits for questions and comments. I've been banned from multiple conservative or right wing subreddits for asking questions or disagreeing as well.
My original statement stands about which way they lean but whether they go left or right most people seem to be snowflakes and censoring people's opinions that disagree with them nowadays
He didn’t restore “free speech”. He literally made it “pay for a platform”, which has allowed a lot of propaganda to get preferred status. Also, a lot of the people complaining abou lack of free speech on Twitter were using Twitter to complain. There seems to be a contradiction there.
The common voice isn’t heard on Twitter now. It is only amplifying the people willing to pay to have their voice amplified. How is that any different from the regular media?
You can pay and market like any other platform but now we can have opinions from all sides voiced without being censored, meanwhile Reddit and most other socials censor any “right wing” or opinion that goes against there beliefs
Reddit censors can be unhinged sometimes, but each subreddit is its own entity in that regard. Plenty of oppositional voices thrived on Twitter pre-Musk. Musk is amplifying the worst voices for profit. The same thing has happened on Facebook even with the supposed censorship. Money is the ultimate goal.
Of course money is the ultimate goal but I know subreddits are their own entities and that’s why the banning and censorship on reddit is so rampant, but at least on Reddit there’s other sub Reddit’s you can go to with people that share your beliefs, only downside is there is no discussion between the sides anymore, they just group up and only talk to like minded people. Which I believe is a problem.
I still believe with musk owning Twitter that there is less censorship, and the opinions I see on there are much more diverse now without a doubt. Meanwhile Facebook and Instagram ban very quickly for certain unpopular opinions.
It’s funny everyone attacking me acts like I love Elon, dudes a billionaire, obviously his end goal is himself and money. But I still believe he can do some good, maybe dude will take us to mars lol
Yeah, it's Twitter. It's still Twitter. And every business decision he's ever made with it has been objectively terrible. Including buying it in the first place. More than that, he contradicts his avowed 'free speech absolutism' bullshit constantly, firing people who criticize him and, and this is the big one;... continuing to use the same moderation practices of his predecessors.
Because it turns out, Twitter wasn't some censorious tyranny run by manipulative leftists. It was a company trying to make a profit off of a website, and they were doing what they could to make money. Throwing toxic shitheads off the platform wasn't censorship, it was a business owner throwing the raving homeless crackheads out so the rest of us could actually fucking patronize the place in peace.
The reason it was a bunch of right-wing extremists getting kicked moreso than most? Well it's simple really. Right-wing extremists are bad for business.
Wrong. There's a bunch of headlines talking about emails that all equate to giant nothing burgers that you took at face value because it was convenient for your political agenda for them to be true.
Ok 🐑, the files are out there that the government and Twitter colluded to sway public opinion and censor people that went against it. But live in your fantasy land where the government wouldn’t lie and cares about you.
Your profile says that you're here for "fetish roleplay"
Which means that you're likely some shitlib who is butt sore that dissidents aren't being banned from X anymore.
People have been banned from Xitter for so much as making fun of the terminally online Elon Musk, who bought the social media company purely to use it to control his image.
So, uh, no
Oh good god this is such nonsense, I’m all for less censorship but y’all are genuinely delusional in thinking e,on is some great bastion against censorship lmao
https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-king-censorship-10-113000792.html
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-elon-musk-twitter-has-approved-83-of-censorship-requests-by-authoritarian-governments.html
https://www.thefire.org/news/twitter-no-free-speech-haven-under-elon-musk
Look into why he had to comply with the countries laws ya sheep. Also that last link is just people crying about nonsensical garbage. Cope harder, on x you can freely have a different opinion and discussion, which is not free on most other platforms when your opinion goes against the matrix.
I’m the idiot but you only had the brain power to respond to one of my points. Ok smegma brain. That “article” complains about people who broke rules getting banned, a decision that got reversed immediately and some theories, you clearly don’t use x and are just a hater.
Doxxing and inciting violence are a couple, do your own research big guy. Don’t just read headlines. Go vote Biden since you both have the same brain power
Why are you stalking my account? If you can’t handle a conversation without raging and doing weird shit like that then you shouldn’t be having conversations lol
How do thousands of people die by pointing out that Covid was manufactured in a lab in wuhan that was conducting gain of function research? It’s also a fact at this point in time.
Because those are fringe theories that were perpetuated by Rand Paul, but have no basis in reality. The DNA sequence of the virus proved it was of animal origin.
that's factually incorrect.
the only people who said that were Kristian Andersen, Robert Garry, Peter Daszak, et al.
literally the people getting paid to the the research at the Wuhan lab.
It was stated in Nature magazine, and used as a talking point to deflect blame in the early stages of the pandemic
Can't really have tolerance for misinformation. I won't assume your origin, but in the US, misinformation has caused a lot of damage recently. In the past few years, we saw an attempted insurrection, an armed takeover of a government building, and just recently a gathering of nazis marched in front of a capitol building.
There's nothing wrong with having a discussion so long as it's done in good faith. The issue here is that the information is easily proved to be false. However, if you're trying to tell me that the tiny Jewish population in Germany convinced the Kaiser to surrender or that the democratic party is operating a pedophile trafficking ring in the basement of a pizza place that doesn't even have a basement then I'm in inclined to just call you an idiot and move on with my day. This works until that idiot finds 3000 other idiots, they arm themselves and begin shooting anyone that disagrees with them.
What makes these things misinformation? They are easily proven to be untrue. For example, the op is saying that a US document blames the Wuhan lab for spreading Covid. This claim was taken from a report where funding was cut due to safety concerns in that lab. The Biden administration has also explicitly said they are not blaming them for Coivd. Although, because this lab was in Wutan and we know coivd originated there, op has determined in his own mind, that is why funding was cut and it is indisputable. That is a very dangerous way to think
It's weird that you have such a hard on for MSNBC being propaganda when Fox News lies so often they had to change it from news to an "entertainment" show to keep from shut down for constantly spouting misinformation.
And just so you know, most Democrats don't watch MSNBC, and even when they do they don't view it with the godlike reverence the average rightist watches Fox News with, and additionally balance their information with secondary sources and outside data.
The misinformation is from the government and the media. Plenty of evidence J6 was an inside job between Democrat leaders, DOJ and FBI. That’s where all the damage is from. Trump is best thing that happened to America since Reagan. (Waiting for my lifetime ban just for sharing my opinion and a few facts)
The fact that this was upvoted goes to show the mentality here. I'm not even sure how it could be an inside job. Are you saying that everyone there was a democrat? Are you saying that they were misled by democrats? There's a lot to unpack here.
Then there's the entire common sense portion of it. Why didn't Trump tell them to back down when everyone asked him to? Why did democrats evacuate as well? How has this secret been kept so well? There were over 700 arrests. Donald Trump himself hasn't even been too keen on this theory. If January 6th was "fake" then what about all of the other times Trump supporters have forced themselves in to buildings such as the Micigan Capitol building and during the "stop the steal" protests. Were those democrats too? The theory just doesn't make sense and further proves my point
We then have to ask why. The January 6th event has added to more controversy around Trump but it isn't being used as exactly what's sending him to prison. Only 4 of the 91 counts are in relation to that event. Several of the people there had been in the public eye at other Trump and Qanon rallies. Did they go undercover? Was this really worth blowing their cover over if so? None of it adds up and nothing supports that what you're saying is true
Equating words to violence and danger foreshadows the normalizing of censorship, controlled speech, persecution, and internalized repression in large amounts of people. It is fascists and authoritarians pretending they’re gonna make the bad stuff go away to protect the poor helpless babies like mommy.
That’s why I find it not only ironic and funny but also dangerous that corporate media and left wing dopes scream fascist at anything they don’t like, yet fail to realize that a majority of the policy positions they hold are fascist.
Yeah i had an epiphany one day that all the weird leftist college is a lot like the Hitler youth. And they have all these claims that they are fighting this and saving that but in reality it’s all just words. They’re just straight up liars encouraging each other to keep it going. If the little voice in your head that tells you maybe somethings wrong was a person they’d shoot it in the back of its head
Hitler had an epiphany like that also, he started screaming "Woke!" and "mein struggles!" while waving the flags of all of America's enemies both foreign and domestic, like a true patriot. Oh wait, no that was my racist redneck uncle.
Except that the only fascist threat in the West is surprisingly enough, coming from people who claim to be fighting fascists.
But that's cool, because Antifa and other little pinko queer huffers have no idea what's going to happen the next time they decide to throw one of their expensive temper tantrums.
All I'll say is: normal people in my community aren't going to tolerate it. We've already planned a contingency for what we're going to do should agitators start shit here after the election.
You’re a fascist lol. And have fun with that… you bunch of chuds won’t benefit much from your too-small plate carriers when you can’t run half a mile without falling over.
Like sure, Neo Nazis (republicans)) have guns, but few actually train. Meanwhile anyone on the left who has guns, most likely does because it’s a much more deliberate ownership
Oh please, people that say this can be convinced to attack and scare anyone that a group doesn’t like. Label them as fascists, label them as nazis, and suddenly the privileged academic class thinks it has to attack the working class to save america
“Open discourse of ideas” with fascists you mean. Fascism isn’t just “another opinion” it’s ontologically evil, literally the greatest evil humans have ever created. You can’t have an open discourse with an ideology that is definitionally illogical.
This isn’t my opinion this is a historical fact. The consequence of treating fascism as just another idea, or even as something to harness, resulted in 60+ million deaths and the holocaust.
Really think we should give them another chance? Rather than nip it in the bud? Like I’m not saying the government should do anything about this (they can’t be trusted with that power), rather as a society we should have the understanding that being a Nazi gets you punched in the face.
What is fascism? Is it the merger of government and corporate power? Exactly like how the Biden administration colluded with big tech to censor any dissention on COVID policies?
I know you’re trying to scare me into agreeing with you but you aren’t going to convince me that OP sharing a link on Reddit is going to lead to another holocaust. What a theatrical post.
When most people lack critical thinking and epistemological skills. Then it's not a discussion it's a shit slinging fight over false information. Americans have more than proven y'all lack epistemology as a people.
Since the democrats started it. Ask a democrat “why” after their statements and they never can answer except with… “shut up racist” that’s been shutting down conversations for years now
Ivermectin has been prescribed to people for decades, now.
"It (Ivermectin) was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. "
"...widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug."
People can chose what they want to do for themselves. Other research clearly showed what's often phrased as "observational promise" in regards to treating C19.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/
Well blatant misinformation can be harmful. There's a difference between that and discussion. OP is in the right though, I was also unaware the scientific consensus had changed. It's definitely worthy of a discussion.
Discussion is dangerous when half of the people involved in it are operating under a pack of provable lies. When their lies they believe as truth end up killing a million people.
People who think they have top secret information that the rest of us just won't go along with, or don't know about, are full of it. It's dangerous giving power to people who lie because it makes them money. Like Alex Jones. He lies to you because it helps him sell supplements. The man is extremely rich because there are so many people who let him tell them how to think.
There have been no shortage of "truths" throughout history which ended up being false. And people were persecuted for discussing such matters on a regular basis.
Without open discussion, we cannot advance science. Without advancing science we aren't able to make any progress or discover anything else, including the truth.
At one time, it was illegal to discuss a heliocentric model yet today this is common knowledge for 3rd graders.
A lot of the covid info fit this model. If you didn't parrot what MSM was saying then you were wrong. Irrespective of reality-based information or logic. And a lot of this "truth" ended up being incorrect
Discussion isn't dangerous. Censorship is. It is a hallmark of a closing society
its to brainwash the western world 🤣 if you say anything about russian laws on cancerous foods how they banned it, then message gets took off 🤣 its like reddit don't care about people having useful information 🙃.
Discussion has manifested into violence on many occasions throughout history. I’m not sure where you get the idea that “discussion isn’t dangerous” because discussion is what leads to action, it’s toppled empires, it’s enslaved people, it’s responsible for the holocaust, it’s responsible for the British colonies throughout the world, it’s responsible for the ku klux klan. Discussion has never been harmless, it precedes action.
Reddit is terrible for discussion. In an ideal forum, downvotes would be for comments that do not add to the conversation, but in practice, people downvote comments they disagree with or dislike, even if they add to the discussion in a meaningful way.
I got banned from worldnews after asking someone if their deceased friend had gotten the covid vaccine. My gf suffered a heart attack at 28 n died and she had it.
I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand how the world works buddy, but if you go around telling lies then some people will Believe them. Then *those* people won't even know they're telling a lie when they share that newly acquired "information" to anyone else.
And that's how you get communities of millions of people that believe the earth is flat and 6000 years old, or that vaccines cause autism, or that China made COVID as a bioweapon.
If you genuinely don't understand the problem with misinformation, you're a fucking idiot.
When Trump got elected. Republicans have caused serious damage because they will lie like crazy, so people are overemphasizing other direction to try to curb any misinformation. Until Republicans are fully removed from any power, this won't change.
Not saying I agree fully, but this is my opinion, that Trump and Republicans are to blame.
Discussion becomes dangerous when those in power profit from misinformation. Bear in mind that specific statement is not from the "US Government" but rather from specific representatives (read "Republican politicians") on a House Oversight committee. It was not the consensus of scientists or the US intelligence service, however certain individuals in the house have a vested interest in blaming China for engineering the pandemic so that they can demonize foreigners rather than be forced to implement better pandemic early warning systems. THAT is when discussion becomes, quite literally, dangerous.
I agree with this sentiment. But OP is gaslighting. There are so many “official” government documents that are absolute works of fiction created by hyper-partisan committees.
>Either way...since when did discussion become dangerous?
When it moves the Overton window
Discussion of topics isn't the issue. Presenting two ideas as equals and lending crackpot conspiracy theories some semblance of legitimacy is the problem.
For example:
Discussions like... Are the Nazis actually the bad guys? Was Hitler right?
Are unacceptable, Have no right to exist, and the only correct response to their introduction is immediate and absolute rejection and dismissal.
They are not valid, there is literally nothing to be discussed. Whoever suggested them is immediately and objectively wrong. Period. Irrefutably undebatable.
Simply allowing certain topics to be discussed gives them some semblance of validity, especially when you allow those topics to be discussed freely and openly.
This is not to say we shouldn't have free speech, you should have the right to say whatever you want.
However the response to something as ludicrous as saying covid was created in a lab in wuhan should be exactly what happened. Immediately shut down and banned. It is settled science at this point. Dozens of scientific papers have definitively proven and concluded that multiple genetic sequences in Covid are IMPOSSIBLE to artificially synthesize.
It literally could not have been created. Thousands of Doctors and PhDs have collaborated and analyzed the entire pandemic start to finish. It was zoonotic. Not created. End of story.
Insinuating that the Wuhan lab theory is anything more than a crackpot QAnon conspiracy theory imagined up by flatearthers should not be tolerated whatsoever.
Giving the discussion even the slightest time of day lends it an heir of legitimacy which is completely unacceptable.
If your opinion is anything except disdain for topics such as this you are wrong and you should be ashamed for having such a stupid opinion.
Certain topics need to be policed. Bad actors, the ignorant, and the uneducated NEED to be bullied, punished, and shamed for suggesting objectively false and stupid ideas.
Depending of course on their level of insistence that such topics are worthy of discussion, if someone innocently suggests or promotes an idea that is clearly wrong, but they are just inexperienced on the subject, that can be politely shut down...
But when you have far right wing proponents asserting bigoted, racist, Zionist, sexist ideas etc, as true, even with substantial and definitive evidence to the contrary... They move the Overton window and cause legitimate harm to society. This cannot be allowed.
This is why women don't have equality and are losing fucking rights in 2024 and human rights are regressing
Been dealing with this as well. It’s wild. The r/navy subreddit community literally banned me for quoting SECDEF Austin’s 95% vax rate and asking “where are the longitudinal studies demonstrating efficacy and/complications”?
The amount of people who just str8 up shut conversation down with these kinds of posts alarms me. I personally think most of it has to do with automated systems but even when I appealed my ban, I got the same shit.
Perpetuating assumptions without facts is not really discussion, it is promotion of unverified information or false information. The fact is at this time we have zero proof the origin of the virus. It took several years to identify the source of the aids virus. So what benefit does the discussion provide? What we do know is it is a zoonotic virus and that we have had 4 pandemics in 20 years 3 of which were zoonotic. Let’s address facts not fiction and not speculate as it does not provide value.
I don’t follow. Doesn’t “scientific consensus” literally only mean the generally accepted theory within the community? Scientific consensus doesn’t mean it’s fact, but it does mean a majority within the field carry that stance and that consensus is flowing and changing whenever new studies are done or published. I don’t get what’s unscientific about that.
No, I read the whole thing. And no, while his paper grew rapidly, strong criticism and resistance to his “pseudoscience” lasted for decades. It wasn’t until around the 40s to 50s that relativity finally began to be universally accepted.
The existence of resistance doesn’t mean that it wasn’t widely accepted in greater academia. People still argue that climate change isn’t real, that doesn’t change the scientific consensus that it is.
Your climate change comparison is more akin to some Christian sects resistance to relativity in the modern day. Despite its rapid growth through the ‘20s, the paper wasn’t accepted at the level we know today until the ‘50s. But recency bias makes it difficult for people like yourself to comprehend things like this.
It didn’t have to be as accepted as today to still be considered the general consensus. I’ve done additional digging on this since our conversation began and I am still only finding sources saying that it was generally accepted in the physics community by the 20’s. You happen to have a source showing otherwise? I would love to do some additional reading.
Aside from this being moronic and inaccurate, the agreement,
"If SoMbOdY iS wRoNg AbOuT oNe ThInG, ThEy Must Be WrOnG aBoUt EvErYtHiNg!"
Doesn't sound as good as you think it does.
Not to mention his example also largely proves him wrong. Einstein published his final paper on relativity in 1915 and it was already adopted as scientific consensus by 1920.
I guess that's why they totally stop asking questions about the theory and why they stopped devising tests about the theory. Those conspiracy theorists that detected gravitational waves basically stole a bunch of research money because the consequences was settled science.
Anything that goes against the consensus including any scientific consensus that changes its mind is a conspiracy theory and misinformation.
This comment doesn’t make sense. Are you being facetious? Reaching scientific consensus doesn’t mean research and studies don’t continue. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific process.
Oh, thank you for saying that. You see, on Reddit you're now a alt-right conspiracy theorist. We don't do research or studies that aren't pre-approved where scientific consensus has been settled. We don't get to propose any study that could disrupt the consensus. And, if the consensus changes we ban you for mentioning the heresy.
While his paper grew rapidly, strong criticism and resistance to his “pseudoscience” lasted for decades. It wasn’t until around the 40s to 50s that relativity finally began to be universally accepted.
You’re right, the simple existence of opposition does not invalidate your point. And honestly, I don’t think there’s any point I could make that can’t be simply (and fairly) deflected with “well that’s just a fringe group”, or “that’s just a few angry antisemitic scientists”. The history as I have read and understood it is that the resentment for Einstein grew and spread nearly as quickly as his supporters until the ‘40s, when it wasn’t quite so kosher to hate on Jewish people anymore.
I mean, isn’t that entirely the point? Consensus just means majority support in these cases, so proving that the dissenting ideology is a large enough portion to challenge the accepted stance really does matter. Like think of Project Steve. It was a scientific movement created to directly combat the fairly extensive list of scientists that didn’t believe in evolution that was being pushed repeatedly by creationists. Project Steve was created to prove that, just using scientists with the first name Steve, the number of scientists supporting evolution was wildly larger.
It’s crazy because I’ve been seeing the commercial for whichever one rhymes with eugenics anytime I go to my parents house and it’s uncomfortably funny
“And trust me, she’ll like it too *winks at the guys wife*”
Yeah, and then we collected evidence that showed it was true. And we corrected.
Science is still the source for the theory of relativity, it wouldn’t have been found without it.
And then it was proven wrong. Do you have firm proof for your position? Because if so, you should probably take it to the people who publish that kind of stuff. Otherwise, saying because people were wrong about one thing they're incapable of being right about anything is pretty stupid.
It does, and there are things which it would be revolutionary to undo...but it was being used at a time when the only consensus was the consensus of the people involved in Gain of Function research, and their consensus was that nothing they did could have caused this...literally within days of the genome being sequenced. They met and published a BS paper in Nature that was never even close to being scientific, and used it as reference for all discussions. It was bad because they were telling people it was a normal, natural virus when in reality it was something far far worse. It had real policy implications.
My problem is when people misinterpret an incorrect scientific consensus and attribute it to malice or incompetence. More often than not, the incorrect conclusion was reached due to a lack of data or reliable information and once that data or information becomes available, the consensus shifts.
It is wise to heed current scientific consensus when talking about legislation because 99% of the time, the consensus expresses the *best information available at the time*. We can then course correct and make changes as more information comes out. Saying “scientific consensus is unscientific” is flat out batshit insane.
The problem is that there were plenty of non scientists (just basic people) that saw the reality but were forced to accept the scientists consensus which made it very very clear that a lot of scientific consensus is actually bought and paid for agenda-confirming BS. That’s the reality of what Covid actually did for us.
Scientific consensus at one point was that the earth is flat, and that the sun orbits earth, so saying there is scientific consensus on anything other than some of the most basic laws of the universe is essentially worthless, any good science is constantly being questioned and challenged and retested until it's proven to be a law
At no point since the invention of science was scientific consensus that the world was flat. Popular consensus, yes. Religious consensus, yes. But ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round, and science as a methodology was not properly elucidated until the enlightenment
As a slightly more reasonable response than my first one, I’ll just go ahead and say that scientific funding isnt centralized to the point where one entity can push an agenda to the point of reaching general consensus in their field, especially with so much scientific advancement coming from University labs these days.
University labs are the scientists who are totally dependent on funding agencies.
It is highly centralized! Especially if you break it down by field/research area. The way it works is that the scientists are beholden to every agency rather than none of them because they cannot offend any without losing critical funding to pay their students, and university fees. One cannot simply go get NSF funding to replace funding lost by pissing off the NIH. Nor can you piss off the NIH and continue as you were in the good graces of the school because then you become everyone’s problem.
If you’re going to sit here and imply funding agencies are creating artificial consensus through strong-arming researchers you’re gonna have to cite your sources. And not just sources talking about funding being pulled from labs. You will specifically need a source that displays a false consensus and the systems used to create that.
Yes, funding is finicky. That doesn’t mean there is a cabal of bad actors in the field using their money to strong-arm scientists into creating a false consensus on a mass scale. Period.
The decent thing about scientists is that they aren’t quite this naive, and they don’t worship science or scientists (the ones who sell this to you are charlatans or ‘Science educators’).
Unfortunately, the truth about scientists is they are just people and generally docile ones at that. I literally do not talk to people irl in my daily life who are not scientists. There’s a great deal of specialization and conformity, which are necessary to achieve competence and maintain reputation in a narrow research area, but this comes with costs that makes these people as a class unsuitable to be a target of public faith.
So you’re literally saying we can’t trust scientists because the the political motivations behind their research, but are failing to provide evidence other than “trust me bro”. Again, if you’re going to assert that an artificial scientific consensus has been reached due to politicization of their field, you have to provide me some evidence or cite your sources.
Alright let’s talk some science. I am a primary source. I know what I know based on observation and experience over years of interacting with hundreds of scientists, as well as my critical thinking about their/my education. You in demanding a source are requesting that I provide some written documentation of someone else’s opinion about the issue (after all we are not talking about something quantifiable here). This source would invariably be an article or study underpinned by basically the same base epistemological theory: ‘just trust me bro.’ This is obviously stupid to me especially as my ideas are my own about this topic and not derivative of someone else’s ideas. I suspect that you are demanding a source in bad faith.
> Doesn’t “scientific consensus” literally only mean the generally accepted theory within the community?
Yes, unless the topic is climate change, gender, COVID-19, or social science. Then, 'scientific consensus' means that it was written by the hand of God on a marble tablet, and you are a heretic who must be punished for your lack of faith if you express any doubt regarding the data, methodology, or conclusions of The Science™.
Generally speaking, the people disagreeing with the consensus on issues you just listed are arguing politics and not science. Thats likely why people get so much backlash when pushing a narrative that conflicts with the views of the wider scientific community on topics like climate change.
I would argue that the opposite is true, specifically with climate change. The political 'solution' to it always seems to be some flavor of advancing a global Bolshevik-style centrally planned command economy. If I disagree with that political solution, I am labeled a climate denier.
That’s interesting. If you acknowledge that various aspect of climate change are man-made and real, then you’re obviously not a climate denier. Mind giving me an example of some action you’re vocally opposed to that leads people to accusing you of being a climate denier?
there's an entire research paper published regarding that 97% consensus being utter bullshit, the scientists who objected to being included in the 97% were all pretty sufficiently silenced. The problem is the money for grants comes from the people who are profiting off the climate crisis to start with.
Wow, a single entire research paper.
... Where from, who wrote it, why did they write it, where did they get their evidence, and has anyone corroborated their conclusions?
I can post whatever proof I can find, you'll likely go to a activist site for the rebuttal. Its like a programmed response. but here, this is a easy link for you to read if you are up to challenging yourself.
[https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/03/cooks-97-consensus-disproven-by-a-new-paper-showing-major-math-errors/](https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/03/cooks-97-consensus-disproven-by-a-new-paper-showing-major-math-errors/)
its an accepted peer reviewed paper that disproves the 97%. Its up to you to accept it.
Ah, I see why people don't believe you. And it has nothing to do with politics. Here, let me explain:
You're a condescending fuckhole that is actively unpleasant to interact with and so nobody wants to listen to you.
Now that that's out of the way: Your *article* (this is not the scientific paper, this is an article about a paper in a website run by an ex weather man who is ***nakedly*** biased against anthropogenic climate change as a theory, and as such, this is, as you termed it, *an activist site*) is probably bullshit too. Here's why:
**"A tweet in President Obama’s name had assumed that the earlier, flawed paper, by John Cook and others, showed 97% endorsement of the notion that climate change is dangerous:**
**“Ninety-seven percent of scientists agree: #climate change is real, man-made and dangerous.” \[Emphasis added\]**
...
**"Only 41 out of the 11,944 published climate papers Cook examined explicitly stated that Man caused most of the warming since 1950. Cook himself had flagged just 64 papers as explicitly supporting that consensus, but 23 of the 64 had not in fact supported it."**
The article changes the statistic it is measuring several times in succession in order to conflate one data point with another. Which is it? Are we measuring what percentage of scientists think climate change is dangerous, or what percentage think it's man-made?
And then it throws up even more smoke up our collective ass by further asserting, and I quote Dr. Soon here: **“There has been no global warming for almost 17 years."**
The paper mentioned is from 2013, so that gives us a range of 1996-2013, where [NASA](https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/) charts a steady rise in global surface temperature, which means this man has just flat out *lied,* and if he's willing to lie once... and if his colleagues are willing to let that lie into their joint paper... It calls the credibility of all of them into serious question.
As for bragging that it's an accepted, peer-reviewed paper; That doesn't actually mean much. It just means it got accepted into *a* journal and got published. And the standards for accepting that are all over the place. Even the big names like *Science* and *Nature* have inadvertently published outright falsified papers from time to time. The point of journals is not to verify the science, it's to *publish* the science (and generate ad revenue by doing so). Verification comes from other scientific outfits repeating the same study, and, surprise surprise, this paper referenced by Legates et al has barely received any traction or review whatsoever. Unsurprising, considering the current state of replication science, and less surprising still considering the glaring flaws and agenda bias weighing it down. Most reputable scientists know not to waste their time digging in the mud with the cranks.
Also, you do realize, that in order to assert that the paper Legates et al are rebutting was heavily politicized, you logically have to admit that *this one could also be heavily politicized,* right? And don't even try to pretend that there aren't both political and economic incentives to deny climate change - and not just anthropogenic climate change, but *the entire concept of earth's climate changing in our modern day at all.* Just don't waste my time, or yours, doing that.
He did an excellent rage post. Really solid motivation there. Aside from.attacking my character because I had the audacity to not suckle at the teat of the 97% lie, it wasn't half bad.
You can nitpick the actual size of the consensus if you want, I genuinely do not care, climate change is still going to be real, and it's still what's supported by the preponderance of all evidence, and it's still going to be affected by 200 years of rampant human industrialization, and it's still going to be our responsibility as a species to deal with it. It'll be true tomorrow, the next day, the day after that, and going on ad infinitum.
Since I've already blown your denialism cope disguised as a research paper out of the water, I won't repeat myself, especially since it's clear you didn't scrutinize it in the least for yourself.
Oh, and, your attempt at sarcasm as a defense mechanism whenever you get challenged? *That's* why I called you a condescending fuckhole. Because of *how you treat people,* not because of what you think. I was attacking your behavior, not your politics.
I didn't disagree that climate change was happening, just pointed out a peer reviewed study that disproves the 97% narrative. in response I got a wall of text. classic leftist ideologue response. I also didn't point out that Cook [et.al](https://et.al) has had many of his "scientific studies" just straight dropped for lacking any factual basis.. but his 97% must be flawless. Its fine. dude can be mad. Time will tell who's correct.
This is psychological projection. You're not on trial for being a heretic, and prescribing a disagreement with "scientific consensus" as though one is being hung for witchcraft is laughably ignorant. You're simply uncomfortable with being called a nutjob.
My dude, I'm putting this out there for you. Take it for what you will.
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
It is human nature to actively disagree with facts if it *seemingly* contradicts their ideology in anyway. Oh, to your comment that a solution involves the advancement of some global "Bolshevik-style centrally planned economy" ... that's a ton of word salad. Just say that you don't like knowing that your actions have consequences and impact to others, and our islands / bubbles give us warmth. It is very confronting, but it took years for oil companies to remove lead from gasoline. The consequences are already there, however.
Also, presuming you live within the USA, you do know you already live within a centrally planned economy? Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
Or, hear me out, because scientific consensus is the generally accepted and tested theory within the expert community, Joe Dipshit on Facebook probably isn't right when he says something like the COVID vaccine makes you magnetic.
I agree with the sentiment. Take, for example, the respected Harvard researcher who we found out this past weekend was heavily pressured not to publish his study that showed that race did not predict police shootings.
You are getting down voted because they don't want actual answers and instead want to circle jerk about people circle jerking. It's an amazing natural occurrence to see in the wild
Funny thing, for the first like 12 hours of the comment it was sitting around 2 upvotes. Passed out and came back to this shitstorm and like 20 comment replies 😂
What’s unscientific is conspiracy theorists and individual scientists with personal biases don’t like people coming together to discuss what is most supported by the evidence.
Yeah I was shocked to learn how scientists ‘move up’ and get grant money for research by agreeing with those with more power whether it’s right or wrong. It’s incredible that a scientist can be blackballed for not kissing Fauci’s or someone similar to Faucis ass.
What do you mean by independent research scientist? There are examples of self-funded research like with Wolfram or Mitchell, but when I hear "independent research" in the same discussion as "covid" I assume you mean that you read a lot of blogs. Biology research is expensive and highly regulated, especially with a pathogen. At best, I'd trust a truly independent scientist (not trading government for ngo or corporate funding) to write a really good review article.
Scientific consensus is a lot more reliable than the results of any one study. Yes, biases are inherent to any human endeavor. The need for funding drives research focus. Some people outright falsify data to get publications in. I still trust one guy with unknown motivations less than a theory tested by a dozen subject matter experts.
Fuck blogs. :)
My area of research isn't biology, it's "wireless". Businesses (Amazon is one) pay me to analyze their problem and propose a solution. So I \*can\* write really great papers, but I can also read research and say "that's bullshit" or "that's working back from a conclusion". Look at the vaccine efficacy study that had EXACTLY 50% dispersion. That's bullshit, it just never happens...
But I only brought it up to point out that when you do real "science", you don't give any weight to "consensus" of others. During COVID, we saw a lot of unethical "scientists" who were willing to cash in their credibility to get published and get in line for some grant $$.
The 'scientific consensus' couldn't exist a week after the genome was sequenced, but that's what was stated and anyone who said "seems suspect" was called a science-denier, CTard, etc.
As a literal “senior scientist” I can tell you that scientific consensus is the entire point of science. Making sure that the logic followed from evidence actually supports the conclusions drawn requires multiple people to confirm for each other.
Individual scientists coming out to make claims based on their own evidence and bias are simply not trustworthy because of their limited view point and personal biases. These get eliminated when you bring in more people with different types of bias, we all cover for each other.
Sadly, some scientists do not understand this.
in the general/abstract, 100% agree.
but we're talking about less than a week after the genome was sequenced, the people with the most to lose if it was lab-origin came out and said "scientific consensus" was that it was IMPOSSIBLE to be lab-origin. They dictated policy and suppressed dissent by yelling 'scientific consensus'.
It was gross, and not at all science. when i say consensus is the opposite of science, science is repeating someone else's experiment and validating their result. When it's been repeated by a lot of people, it's a reasonable assumption to make.
But if I learned one thing from "Under Siege 2: Dark Territory", it's that assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups. :)
We did not ever have scientific consensus that a lab leak wasn’t possible. Can you tell me who specifically was saying that?
What policy was implemented based on that?
The only people I see repeating something like it’s true are people who are staunchly in the “it was a lab leak” area. Ever since the US department of energy said that there is some evidence that it could be a lab leak, a lot of people are using that to say it’s definitely 100% true.
Kristian Andersen, Robert Garry, et al, Scripps University
The Proximal Origin of SARS-COV-2, published in Nature.
“These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2” said Andersen.
President Trump used it as the basis for his "it's just a little flu that will magically go away in April". To be fair, he would have used any "reason" that let him go back to his self-flagellating victory lap after the failed impeachment.
One article is not scientific consensus. Trump did not use any scientific literature to say it would go away.
And further this article doesn’t even say it’s not a lab leak. It says it wasn’t human manipulated, those are 2 distinct things.
I hate to play devils advocate but there is some room to actually call the government the ultimate conspiracy theorists. They did think up the magic bullet theory and presented it as official. The true reality though is that people have decided what they want to believe. After that decision is made, facts or evidence have nothing to do with it. It’s all about the core belief. We are seeing a very strong form of confirmation bias these days.
As the great Michael Crichton said...
I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. **Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.**
Do scientists agree that it came from the Wuhan area? Yes, that is without a doubt. But that is not the same thing as saying it came from a lab. COVID and other similar virus have been entering the human population from that region for thousands of years.
It is as natural as the over a dozen other diseases that are all very similar and have been breaking out of that region for thousands of years.
And it has been even more of a problem in the last century due to air travel and increasing population. Asian Flu, Swine Flu, Spanish Flu, SARS, the multiple variants of Avian Flu, the list just goes on and on and on. COVID is no different, simply yet another variant of virus that have been jumping from animals to people in that region.
Oh, okay, so we don't need to investigate the lab that specializes in gain of function research and it was a pangolin all along. I'm glad to have real scientists on reddit.
Fucking stfu dummy, you have zero knowledge.
Uh, actually I do. That was actually my job in the military for decades. And there is a good chance I have been studying Ebola Reston since before you were born. This was no more "made in the lab" than any other SARS virus. Or do you think all the variants of SARS (there are over a dozen not counting all the COVID variants) are made in a lab, as well as MERS.
Once again, nice to see that as usual you have no real facts so just resort to insults. If you want, I can recommend some good basic level books about viral outbreaks that are written for people with Junior High levels of comprehension. I can start with "The Hot Zone", by Richard Preston.
So you were doing science with the most hierarchical and most close minded institution in the country, that drills their propaganda into its members from the very first moment you get in contact with it?
Got it.
Once again, somebody that responds with insults and can not actually come up with any actual facts. Got it, please try responding with actual facts and not just attacks.
So out of all the places on earth, the outbreak happened to be in the one place that had the lab where they had “gain of function testing”. But I Mmmm it def wasn’t the labs fault. Just curious, why did they not allow any inspectors in then? And deleted all the data? And the doctors disappeared that spoke out about it?
Don’t take a COVID shit in my lap and tell me it’s a kitten.
Not a coverup… didn’t come from them…
# RRRIIIIGGHHHTTTT…
>So out of all the places on earth, the outbreak happened to be in the one place that had the lab where they had “gain of function testing”.
Not at all.
SARS-CoV (now SARS-Cov-1) is closely related to COVID, and it broke out hundreds of miles away.
That the virus was first detected there means nothing. Reston, Virginia is only 12 miles from Langley. That does not mean that the CIA created Ebola Reston.
Did they not corner it down to a wet market in Wuhan China, where the fucking lab is!!??
Or are you some kind of Chinese agent that’s trying to social engineer us and think we’re all dumber than we look?
The NHI absolutely created COVID-19 as we know it.
On Wednesday, the NIH sent a letter to members of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce that acknowledged two facts. One was that EcoHealth Alliance, a New York City–based nonprofit that partners with far-flung laboratories to research and prevent the outbreak of emerging diseases, did indeed enhance a bat coronavirus to become potentially more infectious to humans, which the NIH letter described as an “unexpected result” of the research it funded that was carried out in partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The second was that EcoHealth Alliance violated the terms of its grant conditions stipulating that it had to report if its research increased the viral growth of a pathogen by tenfold.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan
No, there's actually huge genealogical jumps in the Functions of the virus.
Lots of really intelligent and well-respected people pointed that out early on, but the MSM carried water for their advertisers.
>No, there's actually huge genealogical jumps in the Functions of the virus.
Virus do not have "genealogy". But please, let me know where I can read this research, because I would like to know more.
They do. Genealogy probably isn't the right word, but they're traceable by their mutations through a "family tree"
I guess I don't have to explain to you how unnatural the phylogenetic tree of COVID is...
[https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/662100](https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/662100)
naturally occurring virus don't usually have those HUGE leaps between generations, and oh my, it happened to mutate in exactly the same place they were researching. Amazing.
With just a pretty picture with nothing labeled. And from some kind of article that said nothing of what you are claiming. From a site that is nothing more than a release point for press releases.
Not sure what exactly this is supposed to tell me. This is nothing but a press release of some researchers. And it is not for trying to see where it came from, but to trace future mutations,
Wow, you might want to actually read the source you are trying to claim. But don't feel bad, I see that all the time.
Wow,
Ah, and once again, insults.
Where exactly did I say that? I simply recognize it for what it is, consensus and not fact.
And yes, I am aware of that. The problem is that a great many seem to think they are the same thing, they are not.
If one goes back a century, the "consensus" was that blacks were intellectually inferior. Does that being a consensus mean it was true?
>naturally occurring virus don't usually have those HUGE leaps between generations,
Yes they fucking do, all the goddamn time. That is one of THE defining characteristics of a virus' molecular biology.
If we’re going to prosecute Fauci and whoever else conservatives want to for the fact that the virus had been isolated in a lab can we investigate the massive global coordinated effort to constantly lie about preventative measures and increase the spread and costliness of the virus? Because that seems like a more worthwhile effort to me.
How many people do you know that breathe out clouds of pure virus when they’re sick? The only way COVID could ever be weaponized was to get a significant portion of the population to reject out of hand any and all preventative measures. Telling lies like the one you just told was the main thrust of that weaponization. It’s a eugenics campaign and people should be rotting under prisons for orchestrating and participating in it.
I don't reject real preventive measures, but N95 masks were backordered really quickly and those were the only one that worked.
>people should be rotting under prisons for orchestrating and participating in it.
You seem full of rage and like you just want a socially-acceptable (for now) way of lashing out.
Kindly fuck off.
It’s normal to be outraged by a coordinated global disinformation campaign that contributed significantly to the COVID death toll by preying on people’s ignorance. You can project whatever kind of irrational anger onto me you need to to dismiss whatever it is I’ve said that upset you and you have no ability to argue against. It’s been a common tactic of people unwilling to say anything that isn’t pre-scripted propaganda.
Funny because my bud who did virology had quite a lot to say about it over some drinks and gaming. I'mma take his word over your's which follows blindly to the assholes who where telling you "Do this or you'll die! Shame others who don't!" And guess what? They where all HEAVILY fucking invested in those companies.
Its almost like... A bunch of greedy ass holes used panic to profit while fucking over the poor. But I guess its okay, after all you seem to want anyone who disagreed tossed into camps!
lol dramatic histrionics. I dared to call out your unsupported bullshit so I want anyone who disagrees thrown in camps. You’re all such dramatic crybabies.
Like 90 billion in profits for Pfizer and almost 40 billion for moderna for covid vaccines alone.
And then people like fauci get royalties. And us taxpayers actually paid for all the research. And private individuals get to make multi-millions from the taxpayers investment.
And then the laws that make it where you cannot get the information on what people at the NIH get paid in royalties for the research that tax payers paid for.
I just argued that N95 masks were the one working and the surgical mask we got to use, did not.
You cherrypicked around that, classic fallacious obfuscation.
You have no moral ground.
Define “working.” What does “working” mean in this specific context? How does the virus spread? Is it in clouds of pure virus or is it in microscopic droplets of saliva? I’ve found that people like you do everything they can to avoid specific claims and just throw around carefully curated vague statements and rather then back them up they make weird moral judgements about you and then log onto their other accounts to dogpile you with the same horseshit arguments I’ve already seen a thousand times.
It *mostly* gets out of the body from water droplets but if they are not exposed to UV light, those droplets have the time to dry and the virus is then in the air too.
I would also posit that having everyone have the wrong masks probably made it so people had a false sense of security and took even less real precautions.
How many people were actively caughing in those masks like it was an impenetrable barrier, because they were told the masks were the right one to go around and be safe?
Preventative measures like a rush "vaccine" that they changed the definition of in order to be able to call it a vaccine. The one that just so happened to coincidentally occurred alongside many young healthy people suddenly dropping dead from heart conditions?
The measures sure seem more like the weaponized thing.
More pre scripted bullshit.
They changed the definition lol. Has that ever happened before? Have we ever changed the “definition” of vaccine before? What about the definition changed? Has that word ever been used differently than it is now to describe wildly varying medical treatments? Does changing the definition or usage of the word somehow mean it does not illicit an antibody response against its target antigens? Do you have any informants beyond your pre-scripted little talking point? Have you done any “research” at all to answer the valid and relevant questions I just asked you or is asking questions now a bad thing?
There's a major difference in a typical vaccination, that uses dead or inactive viruses and the mrna shots(that use synthetic rna and spike proteins)
Your being disingenuous, I understand the difference in using cells to build immunity(similar to how inoculation worked) and injecting partial DNA(which is what rna is before you act like it isnt )
What was the original definition of “vaccine” I have a cool little 1920 dictionary I got from my grandfather who died from a Covid infection he got in the hospital. His TV told him that the vaccine would kill him so he didn’t get it. Anyway, I looked it up in the dictionary the first time some anonymous psychopath fed me this line of bullshit. Can you guess what it said?
Here asshole, since you can't search yourself.
Deffinition of vaccine before covid
Dated 05/11/2020
https://web.archive.org/web/20201105154809/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine
it's literally there, where they use the actual virus (dead, inactive, or weak) to artificially boost immune system.
There are other ways to boost the immune system that included things like eating a lot of vitamin C or complete protein overhaul. The Covid vaccine is a lot like the latter rather than an injection of just the virus, it's protein or toxins.
This would be similar to saying what the Japanese used to do by drinking a small amount of poison to build an immunity to it is a vaccine. Today's standard it probably could be called a vaccine.
But knowing this, this isn't saying that using protein as a vaccine is a bad thing. It just their point is it had it's definition changed TO include the covid vaccine specifically.
No, the word when it was created was because Vaxxa which means 'of a cow' and the first vaccine was created by using cows milk. However once it was used more, it gained the definition of being unique because of the use of smaller/dead viruses in it.
Oh so it is normal to amend definitions for things when new methods are developed. Here I thought it was rock solid evidence that the COVID vaccines do nothing and only kill people.
it absolutely is, I'm not making the same argument he's making, I'm explaining it. like I can explain most religions yet I believe in none of them.
The only thing that could be asked here is WHY was it changed for Covid specifically. They had been using protein boosters before without calling it a vaccine. So the method was already there, but it took until covid was out for them to change the definition of vaccine.
Like a lot of things in life, always should see if there's something nefarious in the 'why' something is done or changed. It could be harmless, it could be that more people recognize vaccines as a good thing than protein booster which sounds like a weight lifting thing. It could be something to do with getting insurance companies to pay for it. This part I do not know.
This. It's the fast tracking of it and the why it needed to be changed that I find weird. And the idea that it was being pushed to mandate a fast tracked medicine. I have no problem with people that took the shot, but me n my children will wait until there's proper studies on it like every other medicine they and I take. My wife had to take it for school. It was mandatory that's my biggest concern.
Never said they only kill people. God, you're insufferable. The simple fact it was a rush job that people thought should be mandated is problematic 100%. Science requires testing. No other drug has ever been fast tracked like it was, so yes, it's gonna have issues. They skipped so much of testing typically required to be fda approved
Deffinition of vaccine before the epigenetic therapy were rolled out :
Dated 05/11/2020
https://web.archive.org/web/20201105154809/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine
Very simple.
Now :
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine
Deffinition of vaccine before covid
Dated 05/11/2020
https://web.archive.org/web/20201105154809/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine
Its already in my previous comment ...
I’m not trying to obfuscate. I’m pointing out that you’re full of shit. You know that of course. Because if you did post the original definition it would expose this “tHeY cHaNgEd ThE dEfiNitIoN” line as complete horseshit.
I’m just asking questions. Aren’t we allowed to ask questions? It’s a question that makes people like you who refuse to answer it very mad. That’s pretty telling.
Covid mRNA injectables are not about innoculation, they temporarily change our epigenetic and it bypasses every security feature our cells have to directly highjack our ribosomes to produce extra proteins. Those ribosomes are not doing the other protein our body would normally need when thst is being done.
There are MANY risks in doing that.
And there are many other source or risks, but the vaccines we're launched as "perfectly safe"
So vaccines have always been about innoculation since their first mention (in that text from 1800), until the rollout of the covid injectables.
Just go paint some gundam you rageful useless idiot.
Lol, you have no logic, only biases and a tiny mind that tries to find how you are not wrong. I see where you are trying to go with this.
The goal doesn't change the risks and damages.
Would you say that killing someone by putting them to sleep (medical aid for death)is the same as dismembering them alive as slowly as possible, just because the end state is death?
I would pisitively NOT.
Wow. You seem to be getting very emotional and upset at someone who is just asking questions. Aren’t we allowed to ask questions anymore? I’m talking about why we call things vaccines. It’s very weird that you chose such a violent analogy and feel the need to insult me and stalk through my account just for that.
How you could still have this take in 2024 is crazy.
Paper masks didn’t stop the spread. The “vaccine” didn’t stop the spread. It wasn’t designed to. Saying that doesn’t make you an antivaxer. It means you’ve taken in information outside of what cnn is peddling. Pfizer ceo said it themselves. It wasn’t designed or tested to stop transmission. Period. Full stop.
Government officials and tv personalities reporting that it would and that people not getting the shot are continuing the spread have two possible explanations. Either they didn’t know and they owe people an apology now or they are complicit and should be removed from their positions.
The only way COVID could ever be weaponized was to get a significant portion of the population to reject out of hand any and all preventative measures.
Such an ignorant statement it’s not even funny. You know why COVID was so deadly in the US? So many unhealthy people. It turns out the preventative measure should have been to not create a virus in a lab. The other preventative measure are not being obese and not having diabetes and having good vitamin D levels as well.
A eugenics campaign? Please describe how it’s a eugenics campaign.
>You know why COVID was so deadly in the US? So many unhealthy people. It turns out the preventative measure should have been to not create a virus in a lab. The other preventative measure are not being obese and not having diabetes and having good vitamin D levels as well.
>A eugenics campaign? Please describe how it’s a eugenics campaign.
> >You know why COVID was so deadly in the US? So many unhealthy people. It turns out the preventative measure should have been to not create a virus in a lab. The other preventative measure are not being obese and not having diabetes and having good vitamin D levels as well.
Well the number of people saying “unhealthy” people deserved to die from COVID for the crime of having a health condition was my first clue.
Encouraging the spread of a disease that you know will kill vulnerable people by lying about preventative measures, and then after they die, saying they had it coming is.
How am I encouraging the spread? The only person who lied about preventative measures was the guy in charge of them: Fauci.
Don’t forget, once you get the vaccine you can never get COVID again!
I want to assume you’re either a child or a legitimate shill for believing these things. Hopefully you’ll stop arguing from
Bad faith one day and take a look at yourself.
Who said that the vaccine would prevent everyone who got it from getting COVID in all cases forever? Which of the products offered make or have ever made that claim?
actually Fauci did say that originally as well as Biden repeated it many times until Fauci was forced to make an amendment to it.
see a pattern? Fauci lies and lies until his lies no longer can be covered up.
Literally Fauci and Biden and Rachel
Maddow and all the ghouls in the left wing media?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tj6EkqfCRbA&pp=ygUlUmFjaGVsIG1hZGRvdyBzYXlzIHZhY2NpZSBzdG9wcyB2aXJ1cw%3D%3D
Here you go if you can stand to have your views challenged. Here she is
no, but a virus that has such a detriment on the obese and diabetic was being worked on in one of his labs that went unregulated and he lied to the government about what he was doing.
Fauci has a long history of scandals, so I guess now he's safe because he has tied his last scandal to "anyone against me is an alt-right bigot" somehow, and everyone forgets what that asshole's done in the past too.
He has a long history of scandals? Well that’s all I need to hear to believe that he is one hundred percent guilty of intentionally releasing a virus he knew would kill millions of people. I’m not going to ask any questions of my own about any of this or do any reading or research about it ever. Just gonna go back to eating my paste. Thanks for this very precise and well supported claim that I have now absorbed into my identity of believing and saying anything no matter how unfounded, cruel, or stupid strictly on the basis that I imagine it upsets liberals.
If you want a good start, look at how he handled the AIDs epidemic... or created the Opioid crisis.
I'm liberal. I denounce bad actors like that fuckhead.
How did he handle it? Did he create AIDS and release it to the public because he just wanted to murder people with viruses because he’s just pure evil? I’m sure since he’s so evil and intent on mass murder I bet his entire career is just doing whatever he can to kill the most people right?
First, I'm not saying he CREATED anything or intentionally released covid. The problem was the damage he did in his attempt to cover up his fuckups time and again...
Except in the case of Opioids. That was him. He didn't create it, but he created the demand and the system of kickbacks that made doctors prescribe and then overprescribe it to get people addicted or killed by it. But then he washed his hands of it as if it wasn't him who lied about Opioids being safe when he KNEW they were addictive and in other contexts dangerous.
But back to the coverups. That's what he's doing with Covid again. It came from Wuhan. His lab. His lab that didn't take proper mandated safety measures. That alone puts a stain on his credibility. So what does he do? GEt the FBI and other agencies to forbid people to even talk about it. The fact he went that far to censor people is still fucking evil. He did that with hormone blockers too, and HIV? The scandal starts with him 100% ignoring it because it was a 'gay disease' and only starting to care when 'straight white politicians magically got the disease, totally straight, amirite' and then what he did was campaign for donations and took tax money for 'AIDs studies'... so he was seen as a hero for a little bit of time, until you find out what he did with that money. Placebos and harmful 'pills' to kill the f\*\*s. Oh, but you may not know about that because once again fauci got the FBI to arrest and silence both LGBT activists and medical professionals calling him out for it and trying to make him responsible for the deaths.
His career isn't to kill people, however, when he fucks up he's willing to kill more people to silence them and not hold any accountability.
As an aside on the AIDS thing: I was a little kid when it started to really hit the mainstream airwaves. Mid 80’s or so. Even as a kid, I had a hard time believing that it spontaneously occurred in a monkey in Africa, and then spread from there. And yes, I remember the propaganda that it was only a “gay disease”. My mom was a huge fan of the show “Dynasty” and loved Rock Hudson. He suddenly disappeared off the show and his character was replaced by George Hamilton iirc. It later turned out he passed away from AIDS related complications… and that he was gay.
it's not hard to figure out the history of Dr. Fauci. Lots has been written about his career, even prior to the pandemic
are you refusing to become educated because of how it makes you feel to know you were ignorant?
I don't think that's what they're doing. I think they believe we're ascribing that he intentionally made covid to kill people rather than it being an accident that in response he does what he always does; makes shit worse.
it wasn't an intentional release, but they did defy government regulations and lie about what they were doing. They also perpetrated the lie despite knowing it would cause massive damage to public health and the finances of the 99%.
If you did one moment of research on Fauci like an adult youd discover he’s a fucking ghoul in the pocket of big pharma. Not sure why the fuck that upsets you
you mean like forcing people with healthy immune systems to get a vaccine that didn't stop it, or prevent its spreading?
and then having them get 5 boosters, that still didn't affect the outcome in any meaningful way? I had COVID twice, I'm fat, diabetic a smoker over the age of 40 and it hit me less than a common cold. However my MIL has had it 4 times and she's vaccinated and boosted and gets laid up every single time.
this shouldn't be an argument against vaccines. Yes, the Covid vaccines were rushed because they had to be, and especially since it came as a response to an outbreak that could and should have been prevented but the right people (cough fauci) kept all of it hidden until it became too big to hide. and then he kept lying until the lie became too unbelievable except to the weirdos who for some reason think "being for fauci makes me a good leftist and moral" which is a good tactic because the majority of people are idiots and actually DID believe it. But... less and less people are continuing to believe it.
It's like the polio vaccine. The first version killed people. But after refining, it became one of the most effective with no side effect vaccines.
Um, what? The two are not mutually exclusive, they certainly aren't incapable of overlapping. The entire *field* of theoretical physics is basically built upon scientific consensus. There are so many conditions and possibilities that can occur in the void-like environment of space, which cannot be recreated in any capacity here on Earth; not with our current technological limitations. Without models, we cannot truly determine the factuality of concepts as elementary as widely accepted as gravity and inertia.
Nonono, what they mean is when a group of people say "we have a consensus, this is the truth now" and do not allow people to question it or post their own evidence, that is very much unscientific. Which is what Fauci and his cronies did.
Except it's not. Firstly, your use of loaded language essentially does the same thing. "Fauci and his cronies" makes the dude sound like a mob boss plotting some grand conspiracy. He wasn't, he's a guy with an incredible amount of knowledge and experience in the field of viral infections, and the outbreak of COVID was unprecedented. He made a judgement call, and it was the wrong one. He admitted that. Only a biased observer would chalk that up to be intentionally devious
[gonna link to another post about this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditCensors/comments/1au55qu/comment/kr2xews/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It isn't loaded to call them cronies when Fauci literally uses the FBI to bully, arrest and silence people who speak against him. That is the fucking bill for being called a crony. The Covid epidemic wasn't just a bad judgment call, he was found to his Wuhan lab to not have been kept up to code, was performing illegal and unsanctioned studies there, and then it got out. That's why he tried to get the FBI to silence anyone talking about it until the lie couldn't hold up anymore. Don't you remember twitter and reddit also banning talks about wuhan? Did you know they found out the FBI in the case of twitter was actually telling them they needed to ban accounts that talk about it?
It wasn't about keeping people calm, it was about trying to hide his criminality and blunders again and again.
don't use google, use bing or any other search engine that doesn't engage in trying to censor links, and you'll find sources as well as video of the FBI director (and others) being questioned about their illicit activity by congress where they did, in fact, silence people, encouraged a false raid to arrest people and then told twitter to ban any accounts that talked about it.
Guess it would have been front page news if you know... certain people weren't trying to control the narrative through media.
Theoretical Physics isn't science. It's a temple unto Edward Whitten.
There's a reason that no significant advances in the last 30 years.
I have a BS in Physics, but that's it.
>no significant advances in the last 30 years
I mean, that depends on how you define 'significant.' We haven't made much discovery in the field of astronomy that could be considered groundbreaking in a long time. Theoretical physics kinda depends on that to make advances, because it is *theoretical*. It says it right in the name. Any scientist worth the clothes they wear understands that they are assuming our current understanding of physics to be true, and that things could change upon the discovery of evidence that proves otherwise.
Some of the public may accept these things to be ubiquitous truth, but that doesn't mean the top scientists of the field do. The public also consists of large groups of people that think the earth is 6000 years old. Do you take them seriously too?
Theoretical physics is also the foundation of all virtual reality. Without it, things like CGI and video game design could not exist.
I double-majored to get a Physics degree because someone who I respect highly told me
"there's nothing more valuable than an engineer with a Physics degree, because Physics is applied problem-solving."
go with God, amigo. :)
When? People have known the world was round since the ancient Greeks... even with Christopher Columbus's pitch for circumnavigating the world, the lack of interest wasn't because people thought the world was *flat*, it was because they (correctly) thought it was far larger than Columbus's calculations showed; if it hadn't been for the undiscovered Americas, he and his crews would have died on the ocean because of his miscalculations.
I have a MSEE and a BS Physics, I was an engineer on the first 5G device ever made. I was also an engineer on Waymo's autonomous driving research, did validation engineering on Oculous2, and fixed the design of the Axon police body cam. But LoL at your "i'm a PhD".
People with meaningful PhDs, in an actual science, will generally state their PhD focus when claiming their PhD. That's because a PhD in Electromagnetics means fuck-all to someone with a PhD in Organic Chemistry. You can claim whatever PhD you want now, we all know it's a PhD in "Communications" or "Social Studies".
Scientific Consensus is a thing, it just wasn't a thing when Dr Fauci and his acolytes were claiming it as their high fortress.
That's not what appeal to authority means. Subject matter experts are immune from appeal to authority. Appeal to authority is for things like "my mom said eggs are bad for you, so they must be."
You're so woefully misinformed, and what's worse, you refuse to acknowledge it. It's willful and malevolent.
Actually it is an appeal to authority. You’re claiming that because of your degree you’re somehow magically correct, despite there being an appreciable amount of evidence to the contrary.
*However, in particular circumstances, it [appeal to authority] is sound to use as a practical although fallible way of obtaining information that can be considered generally likely to be correct if the authority is a real and pertinent intellectual authority and there is universal consensus about these statements in this field*.[1][5][6][7][8]
I think you're absolutely right about people with PhDs usually stating whatever discipline they hold the PhD in.
My mother for example always said when speaking of her academic credentials that she had a PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University
I would rather someone who has a PhD in something like philosophy of scoence (liberal arts topic oh no) talk about this topic than someone who has dedicated their career to the study of say birds and has never engaged with the topic or validity of scientific realism.
That NHI grant money is actually from the US taxpayer.
Pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer made 90 billion from COVID for example. Moderna made almost 40 billion in profits. And the researchers who are either government employees, or grant recipients also receive royalty payments from the pharmaceutical companies for the profits that their research paid for by the taxpayer help create whatever is making a profit for the company
May I ask what part of the consensus around COVID jumping from animals to humans is dubious? Or rather, what peer reviewed studies dispute the zoonotic origin of Covid?
Oh wow. You're not a smart person huh?
Occam's razor: what's more plausible? ~~Thousands~~ millions of scientists lying in lockstep to society...
Or, you a random guy who's done some googling knows "the real truth".
Maybe the same companies that constantly get sued for lying and falsifying information are capable of pushing more propaganda than Russia during an election year?
The FDA and big pharma have a cozy relationship. The FDA is supposed to keep big pharma in check, but it doesn’t because big pharma pays money to the FDA and many former FDA officials sit on the boards of big pharma companies. Roughly half of all FDA approved drugs have a warning label retroactively slapped on the product. But yeah, you’re totally right bro!
that's not the situation at all. You had a handful of scientists who had been circumventing the laws banning Gain of Funtion research, who came out within a week of the genome being sequenced and said "Natual Origin Only. Lab Origin Impossible". That's been demonstrated to be false.
There's a lot of insults you can throw at me, but if you want to go after me for 'smart' or 'pretty', you're throwing pellets at an aircraft carrier.
The Proximal Origin of SARS-COV-2, published in Nature magazine, by Kristian Andersen, Robert Garry, et al of Scripps University.
“These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2” said Andersen.
They had a meeting with Fauci when the genome was sequenced, and a week later (after review by Dr Fauci) it was published. The email transcripts have been published, but were redacted because the EchoHealthAlliance (Bill Gates, Peter Daszak, et al) were involved. You will also see Dr Daszak cited over and over as one of the staunchest "Natural Origin Only" mouthpieces.
I work at a research and development center. I can't even tell you how many time we have had a consensus that a test or experiment was going to go one way, and then went the other.
It is actually baked into the scientific method. If new evidence emerges, theories are abandoned or modified. Ex. Newtonian physics was modified/replaced by the theory of relativity. Consensus doesn't mean shit. Belief counts for nothing.
It's what the journal editors and NIH say in public. In the actual foot soldier circles, for postdocs, young APs and pharma scientists, lab leak has been a majority possibility since 2019
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Yeah, sorry too many echo-chambers, can’t list them all. It’s not that I have an inherent problem with social, it’s just out of control. Especially with the newer generations.
The funny thing is this shows the biggest issue with Reddit mods. They just want you to bow down and “admit they are right” they don’t care about the actually Reddit or sub rules, they don’t care about the truth, it’s a 100% power play to preserve the vacuous echo chamber that are heavily moderated subs.
In a way, I guess it's true for my time spent here. Censorship through making a private platform appear to be public.
This is also done in the real world via things like HOA's, mixed us real estate that is privately owned but made to look like public areas.
The conservative subs aren’t any better. Many desantis supporters are banned from r/conservative for instance. Not because they broke rules, but because their mods ban anybody who doesn’t suck trumps dick.
It’s a major problem with sub mods, the colossal left wing skew of Reddit site mods just makes it worse for that group. Basically individual subs ban all kinds of people, but Reddit almost exclusively bans right wing subs, therefore the shit that floats to the top is majority far left.
What right wing subs have been banned other than TD? Far right wing zealots have a tendency to post a lot of shit that would violate TOS so I’m not surprised.
A quick search of r/againsthatesubreddits will give you some first hand understanding of the mod mentality. Take r/politicalcompassmemes for example, they are constantly attacked and treated with banning or censorship specifically for their right wing side (they often pin the threats from the Reddit mods). Lets just take your point that right wing comments more often violate the TOS, your take away from that may be right wing bad, but a more intellectually honest way to look at this is asking WHY the TOS are written in a way to artificially inflate one side of the discussion? A great example is banning of something like misgendering or misinformation, if one side just disagrees, they are now not even allowed to voice their opinions.
Well, has PCM ever been shutdown? I don’t go into that sub because it’s full of dogshit half brained takes (this is how I feel about a lot of subs so it’s not that just one).
Has this sub been banned? Today is my first foray into this one and it seems like it’s just another right wing circlejerk.
I didn't really specify a direction but if you can see it then it's at least visible to others. There are some subs that pretend to be conservative but are really just edgy or combative groups of people dealing with things in a less than ideal manner.
The site overall seemed to take a very specific tilt once advertising money got involved. It is being censored to appeal to whatever demographic shops the most.
I'll agree with that. I actually am an independent and don't have a political party and I am censored all the time on Reddit whenever it conflicts with the socialist, Marxist, or progressive liberal viewpoint
Anyone who has ever commented on anything that shows up in the popular feed that wasn’t cradling the balls of whatever that subs mainstream narrative has either had this same mod interaction or just a no-notice outright ban with zero mention of even a rule break.
Isn't it directly against Reddit ToS to ban people based on the other subs they're in?
I read that somewhere years ago but never got the chance to actually check.
I think I got banned from a random sub for my "interest" in joerogan sub. I'm not even subscribed to joerogan it just pops up as "we think you'll like this"
I've been banned from subs for even commenting on other subs... Even though my comment on the other sub was in agreement with the viewpoints of the sub I was banned from.
When I tried to appeal, they told me because I affiliated with the other sub I was banned, regardless of the nature of my comment.
Report it, honestly if there’s enough reports they can’t ignore it, we as a community should work to expose subreddits and moderators that do shit like this
Just keep reporting it when you see it, more people will as well, when people unite and snuff out lesser beings we can accomplish great things, and great things is what we should strive for
About once a week I get an automod notification that I've been banned from some place I never even heard of because the cyberstalkers saw I replied to something but it actually went to the original sub something was cross-posted from instead of the one I was subscribed to. That's basically just as bad.
Reddit turbo jannies have bots that will scan all users of subreddits they dislike and ban you from the subs they control if you interact with them. It’s against the rules, but turbo jannies love doing it
Lol I remember when the_donald sun was a thing and was quarantined, went there and commented something stupid, not in support of the sub even, just stupid conversation with another person who was there doing the same thing cause it was interesting how much it had blown up
Boom, auto banned from like 15 subreddits I had never heard of lol
Even if the information is correct, it might have insulted or threatened the moderator's point-of-view. So that's a ban right there....I've heard and read about that occurring a lot.
This indeed. We have to remember that at the end of the day they’re just people. Sure, they’re the kind of people who focus their attention and energy into policing message boards all day which may contribute to certain social and behavioral issues, but they’re people nonetheless.
If anything their mod status may make them more emotionally vulnerable. And when you give a… we’ll use the word episodic, individual a weapon, the odds of them misusing that weapon dramatically increase.
The weapon of the Reddit mod is the ban. It is quick, efficient and effective. Like pulling a trigger.
The issue revolves around the size of the overall community.
Because Reddit is so big, it's increadibly easy for user to get lost in the sea. So when a mod abuses their power, no one knows as no one remembers any one user and no one builds a sense of community.
We're all nameless bots here that can be disposed of willy-nilly by mods who abuse their power.
We as a community should remove these types of mods or ever subreddits until they realize Reddit was a place where anything could be said, there used to be a time where you actually had free speech on here, now not so much
"The grass is green"
Power Mod:
"Uh sweety no its clearly pineapple-lavendar BIPOC ACAB, cope, seethe, mald, you Nasee, you sound about White, Mayo-Monkey, enjoy your ban, dont contact us."
Reddit mods in a nutshell: “I spend 95% of my day on Reddit and the other 5% on the toilet I’m on for the other 95% of the day, I make $0 while doing this of course I’m better than you”
Even Jon Stewart thinks the lab leak theory is likely.
I had issue with the folks saying it was DEFINITELY a lab leak in the early days and I had issue with the folks saying it DEFINITELY wasn’t. All these maniacs pick a side and take personal stake in it instead of having sober-headed discussion of possibilities based on evidence.
In the first couple months, it came out that the only species of bat that carries it would have been incredibly far away from Wuhan where it started. I leaned towards the lab leak from the rip since it always made more sense, a scientist studying the virus makes a small mistake, it gets out and spreads, infected people fly around the world causing a large scale problem.
The current lab leak theory that "it may have originated in a lab and accidentally escaped" is also a huge difference from the early 2020 lab leak theory which boiled down to "Red China cooked up a bioweapon and intentionally spread it to kill us all!"
Wild how a BSL-3 potential bioweapon is being shrugged off by governments so the economy can keep running as is, that mask wearing is seen as weird/political, and that the majority of mask wearers put on ineffective surgical masks instead of sealed respirators.
Our medical systems are likely going to collapse behind the scenes as people become shells of themselves and can't work from long covid.
Of the 7 agencies, the FBI is the only one who still considers a laboratory accident possible and they rate it as 'moderately likely'. 4 other agencies think it's extremely unlikely and 2 have not publicly commented.
I’m assuming you have a source that confirms this, as agreeing to the most logical way something like this could have happened seems to be the most logical idea
Pretty easy to google yourself, but based on how little effort you've done already I guess I'll paste it.
[https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-02-27/u-s-agencies-divided-over-covid-19-lab-leak-origin-theory](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-02-27/u-s-agencies-divided-over-covid-19-lab-leak-origin-theory)
in 2022 it was 1 agency moderately for, 4 against, 2 no comment
in 2023 it changed to 1 agency moderately for, 1 agency "low confidence" for, 3 against, 2 no comment
Caveat 1 - one of the agencies for is the DOE which has little to no expertise in the area
Caveat 2 - The CIA has confirmed the chinese government suppressed the Huanan market data (which all supports zoonotic origin) so they have unofficially endorsed that theory, but the CIA by policy never releasees statement on stuff like this
“Pretty easy to google yourself” no no, you don’t seem to understand, YOU made a claim, it’s your job to prove it not mine, otherwise I can say “earth is flat” despite all evidence against it and it’s now your job to disprove millions of people saying earth isn’t actually flat, see how that works
It’s not laziness to expect you to prove the claim you made, it’s laziness to fail to prove your own argument, and I didn’t read it for one reason you expected me to find it myself proving to me you lack the ability to prove it yourself, you essentially told me to prove a sphere is a square, no, so the previous conversation is over it’s now onto the fact that you didn’t feel you had to prove your own argument
Oh like the laziness you showed by failing to provide evidence supporting your argument, right, no you can’t say someone else is lazy when you where just as lazy, it’s hypocritical
Bro I just got into a discussion about this, these Redditors think they can say whatever they want and use “google it” as a cite check. It’s so funny watching their brains scramble when you ask for the source of their info.
> one of the agencies for is the DOE which has little to no expertise in the area
Actually the DOE has some of the most expertise running some of the best labs for biodefence [https://www.energy.gov/biological-science](https://www.energy.gov/biological-science)
> The CIA has confirmed the chinese government suppressed the Huanan market data (which all supports zoonotic origin) so they have unofficially endorsed that theory, but the CIA by policy never releasees statement on stuff like this
I will just leave this here: [https://www.science.org/content/article/cia-bribed-its-own-covid-19-origin-team-reject-lab-leak-theory-anonymous-whistleblower](https://www.science.org/content/article/cia-bribed-its-own-covid-19-origin-team-reject-lab-leak-theory-anonymous-whistleblower)
>I will just leave this here
Ah yes the "anonymous whistleblower" that is taken as 100% truth on the internet.
You really need to learn to vet internet information better and apply some critical thinking
OP's comment was that the government believes it is more likely than not the virus came from the Wuhan lab. The FBI and Department of Energy have made this assessment..
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html
Here’s another source. The Director of the FBI says it likely leaked from a Wuhan lab incident.
> FBI Director Christopher Wray on Tuesday acknowledged that the bureau believes the Covid-19 pandemic was likely the result of a lab accident in Wuhan, China.
> In his first public comments on the FBI’s investigation into the virus’ origins during an interview with Fox News, Wray said that “the FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html
The fact is the Reddit mod is wrong and is using an argument from authority to shield from discussion.
The scientific community also once agreed that popcorn was a superfood and smoking was perfectly healthy, what happened to that?
As soon as the phrase “scientific consensus” was used, I knew they were wrong, because consensus among scientists is anathema to actual science. You may as well start talking about heresy at that point.
OP may not be right, but that doesn’t make the mod right.
Conservatives hate facts. They literally tremble at thought of them.
They think facts are only things that afree with their preconceived notions. They're like children. It's adorable.
Ah, yes, Reddit and other social media platforms are still banning people for spreading factual information. Of course. You have to wonder why theyre schlepping for the deep state...
Only unhinged authoritarian leftists belive in the "zoonotic origin" conspiracy theory.
Anyone who lives in reality can clearly see this couldn't be anything but a lab leak.
Reddit moderators, in their quest for a fleeting sense of power and usefulness, often find themselves compelled to issue bans and engage in censorship even when there is no justifiable reason to do so. This desperate need for control, driven by the fear of experiencing severe withdrawals, is a sobering reminder of just how temporary and insubstantial this illusion of influence truly is. As soon as they return to the reality of their daily lives, the instant gratification from their perceived authority dissipates, leaving them craving for their next fix in the digital realm.
Scientific consensus? Was it the scientific board of cardboard curators? LOL thank you for making me laugh. Seriously, I laughed and my SO hit me because she's sleeping. Let me ask you who you'd rather.. Taylor Swift or Jennifer Lopez? Taylor Swift or Gal Gadot? Taylor Swift or Amber Heard? No judgement, asking for a friend
Amber Heard just because she's crazy and nmght be a great sex partner.. Gal Gadot is super hot, and J Lo has to be crazy good because she's been with so many people, but they all leave her, so maybe I'd swap her feet l for Halle Berre.... With Taylor I think she'd just lay there and meh. LOL
I got banned from a sub for posting a link to a scientific study showing trans kids desist at non-zero rates.
I was told this was "attacking a marginalized community"
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Last I checked, during Covid, every major social media company was run my liberals and openly engaged in censoring conservatives or anyone that spoke a single word against the narrative at the time.
Don’t play stupid now. Anyone suggesting COVID was a lab made virus and not from some “bat” was censoring and even called racist for calling it the Wuhan virus.
It’s been proven many times over to not be a conspiracy theory, not a crack head theory. But yet people were censored over it. Your responses only serve to prove my point.
You’re right just like how the news didn’t talk about Jeffrey Epstein, so according to you he didn’t molest children despite evidence saying otherwise such as victims, they’re just crackheads in your eyes
Man i hate both parties, but dont play dumb. Both censor, yes, but only one is going to censor in this way on this topic. You dont have to buy into the lab theory to see the issue with banning someone over citing a goddamned source because you disagree and cant allow the possibility of discussion.
I get a lot of heat from conservatives when I tell them that I agree Covid came from a wuhan lab and that Trump let the Chinese unleash a bioweapon on the US
You don’t need to mention political affiliation at all, because everyone knows which side of the isle would openly censor someone so sharing this kind of info.
Given that conservatives didn’t control any social media companies during Covid, I’d say no, they didn’t censor anyone. Conservatives weren’t canceling and calling for doctors to lose their license to practice either when anything related to the Covid narrative was questioning. Facebook, Twitter (pre Musk), instagram, YouTube, Reddit and others, all controlled by liberals, were the one actively censoring. Cringe away, but maybe educate yourself first.
You’re nuts, clueless, or both. Conservatives literally created their own social media platforms so they could control the narrative. Basically every conservative sub is extremely heavily censored and tailored, more so than any other sub on average. It’s insane that you say all of those platforms are “controlled by liberals” when many of those platforms are completely overran by conservative messaging (YouTube, Facebook, Instagram). Conservatives post blatant misinformation and cry liberal censorship when they get fact checked on Facebook. Hint: everyone gets fact checked; it happens more to conservatives because they spread more misinformation than literally everyone else. I’ll continue cringing while you and all the others ironically tell people to educate themselves while you dig yourself deeper into your cult, which, by the way, promotes underfunding education.
Oh here it comes! The personal attacks and name calling because I’ve exposed your BS. And assuming I voted for Trump too! LOL. Yeah I ain’t the one in a cult buddy. Take a good look in the mirror.
You are just mad because I’m right. Everyone remembers conservatives and others being censored by liberal run media companies (yes the companies I mentioned) and there was even congressional hearings on it later. Doctors being censored, medical professionals, experts, independent, conservative and even liberal voters who said *anything* the social media companies didn’t like. Even Biden asked for people to be censored on Twitter.
You claim conservative subs are heavily censored yet just by the way you think of conservatives I can tell you’ve never actually been in a sub of theirs and talked in one, you just spout and repeat whatever you are told to by the MSM.
Like I said, educate yourself, because you clearly are lying to me and to yourself with that garbage. The only person thinking about Trump here is you, he loves people like you because he gets to live rent free in your head, all day everyday.
Yada yada yada, yes I’m “lying” to you and I just follow the MSM. Sounds about what I expected your response to be. I’ve commented in conservative subs and been banned immediately for not spewing their talking points. I think a Trump quote is fair game considering he’s the face of the Republican Party. Funny that a lot of your comment is suddenly about him and claiming I assumed things because of a quote by the previous Republican president of the United States. Conservatives have their own media, and they censor everything that doesn’t conform to their agenda too. Thinking that republicans are innocent free thinkers is ignorant nonsense.
Looks like a triggered a snowflake ❄️🤣 yeah I call bullshit on your “conservative subs” comment.
Or maybe you were just an asshole and liberal bot which is why you got banned? Could be the case actually.
You are the one who brought up Trump because of your obsessions with him. Gaslighting isn’t gonna get you out of this.
It’s conservatives who go out there to engage in political discussion and are censored and attacked by people like you in a mob/ cult like manner.
You are definitely a well trained liberal bot.
Nice projecting. Who is the real snowflake, if not the one to try and get the last word in and block the person engaging with you? That's the behavior of someone who is triggered. Good luck out there.
For someone who wasn't interested, you sure put in a lot of effort replying over and over again 😂
Arguing on Reddit is real beta behavior, you're better than that champ 🤣
Seeing as it directly goes against their political agenda, no, know who does though? The newly socialist amercia, north amercia, and at one point we stood united AGAINST socialism
That isn't an official us government statement
It's an official House of Representatives statement
That's the same gravitas as the naming of a post office
Funny part is that we will never know. And also not sure what difference does it make. Covid showed how unprepared humanity is for the real virus. Not even gonna go into people's ignorance and stupidity.
We're still ignoring it. Lots of places stopped tracking it. Not many people understand the correct type of mask needed. Wearing a mask can get you into odd situations because mask wearing in the US seems to have political connotations. Many won't take the vaccine because they don't understand that the virus attacks every system in the body, including the heart and brain, even for mild symptom covid infections.
Whole situation is fubar.
Well done. You did good for revealing the truth. Tbf I would’ve called them all Marxists for banning someone over something that isn’t *settled science* and I probably would’ve gotten banned not only from the subreddit but from the moderator chat as well ( a badge of honor).
It feels like the moderators haven’t updated their understanding of the current accepted position(s). Sorry for your ban my understanding is the same as yours.
Reddit is a liberal circle jerk. It's full of the purple heads and bots.
Whatever the liberal talking points are, they will enforce.
Everyone knows this so you can't be surprised
Look there are two explanations one implicates the US and Chinese government and the other implicates the culinary practices of Chinese people.
Clearly the one that lays fault with the NIH and CCP is the racist explanation. Any non-racist worth his salt thinks that Chinese people are inherently disease ridden due to cultural practices.
/s for the clueless.
Yes, it's true. You can be banned from the lib\*ral subs (seems to be the majority) for stating govt. provided statistics. I know from personal experience.
On January 25, 2023, the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services concluded that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases had failed to adequately oversee a grant to the EcoHealth Alliance for research into bat viruses at the WIV.4 A month later, the Department of Energy, which oversees a network of 17 U.S. laboratories, concluded with “low confidence” that SARS-CoV-2 most likely arose from a laboratory incident. The Federal Bureau of Investigation said it favored the laboratory theory with “moderate” confidence. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that SARS-CoV-2 emerged from natural zoonotic spillover, while two remain undecided. All U.S. intelligence agencies rejected the allegation that participants in a clandestine Chinese biologic weapons program intentionally developed SARS-CoV-2.
From an article from the new England journal of medicine in late 2023. This is why what you said is misinformation, despite what Republicans want you to believe, neither Democrats nor dr fouci paid the Chinese to bake it up in a lab.
While it seems likely that no segment of the US government paid the Wuhan Institute of Virology to
>bake it up in a lab,
on purpose, it is very clear that the lab in question received significant grant funding specifically related to SARS-CoV 2 from the US National Institutes of Health. That funding was suspended in July of 2023 for, wait for it..."failing to provide documentation related to concerns over biosafety protocol violations at the facility that has faced questions for years over the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic."
It's also clear that during 2020 and most of 2021 of the outbreak, Fauci, the NIH, and the CDC misrepresented our relationship with the Wuhan lab, and failed to disclose when they were informed that gain of function of the virus in the lab had increased tenfold. They were informed of this in April of 2018, but continued funding the research anyway.
Republicans are the ones pushing the theory, despite every intelligence agency saying otherwise? The theory that OP is pushing is literally a talking point for years? Anybody aware of the politicization of this issue?
OP put forward a gov doc, then was accused of spreading misinformation. I also know OP, he’s my next door neighbor, and he has a big Biden-Harris campaign sign still up in his yard. Nice guy who mows his lawn regularly.
Reddit is a cesspool when it comes to COVID, over on r/facepalm they were comparing COVID to polio and measles for children, permanently banned for saying that's a ridiculous comparison ☠️
Discussion and ideas are not allowed on a site for discussion and ideas… Almost every sub on this site bans people properly participating daily just because that mod didn’t like the reality of what was said.
Unfortunately free discussion is dangerous. It's likely we have over corrected but I'm pretty sure Jan 6th is evidence enough as to why people are being careful with misinformation. Conspiracy theories lead to radicalization and anti-government sentiment which leads to trump getting new soldiers in his militia.
Oof . . . . congress is not any sort of authority figure for anything based in reality. When you cited the very committed were the crazy idiots were side lined you sort of outed yourself for not being able to tell truth from fiction. Look at the people who are on that committed, Marjorie Taylor Green, she makes Harlequin look like a normal person. She is among the more NORMAL of the republicans on that committee. You should visit the place where people talk about aliens . . . you find another member their talking about alien anal probes and kids less than one year old giving birth. Every republican on that committee has said some bat-crazy insane stuff.
It is not a factual source.
Redditt subs are the most hypocritical and double standards in the world. They banned everyone who doesn’t agree with theirs so don’t be surprised just moved on.
I was permabanned from r/santamonica for a mild criticism on Democratic Party. I am not a huge fan of Republican Party either and I can be considered left of the center. That didn't matter to the mod.
People are failing to understand that wisdom and intelligence need to see the misinformation so they can counter argue it with facts and evidence. Hiding or censoring the information stops the discourse imo
Ohh you mean to suggest that the virus originated from the “Wuhan Institute of Virology” who has been studying SARS Coronaviruses since 2005, and studying if bat coronaviruses could infect human cells, since 2015?
You mean to suggest that the lab researching coronaviruses may have had samples get out of containment? That’s ridiculous
/s
Research on corona viruses is surprisingly common. It's entirely possible for it to be a coincidence. We have/had several labs in the USA studying coronaviruses prior to COVID. Even had our own leak scares.
So you believe it’s just a coincidence that a Virus Institute in Wuhan that had an entire department dedicated to studying Coronaviruses, and also in Wuhan a novel Coronavirus suddenly infects the whole city, with a deadly plague that no one has ever seen before, and you still think that it’s pure coincidence that the city with a Coronavirus research lab, was ground zero? Just a coincidence?
Reddit is so left-wing-extremist I’ve been permanently banned from several communities for stating truth from government websites. Just because it went against the propaganda they want to spread.
I was recently banned from another board for stating that IF a bunch if gang rapists were guilty they should be executed
Even my appeal was denied because apparently i was encouraging violence
The official narrative always changes
The Reddit narrative will always be “the current thing” especially if it makes them look like fools based on past comments
That’s not how science works. You come up with a hypothesis. Test it to hell an back. Have others do the same. If it passes then it becomes theory. Theory of evolution for example. That of course is subject to change with new evidence. Say a human next to a T-Rex in the fossil record. This mod is butt hurt because he got caught slipping.
Now I’m excited to see the inevitable post asking why the lab leak theory is considered a conspiracy theory despite there not being a scientific consensus.
I can absolutely understand why they were banned. Republicons currently control the house which means they control all the oversight committees. If republicons told me water was wet, I wouldn't believe them.
First time on Reddit? This is standard procedure here. If you aren’t lock step you are out of the club. Reddit mods are like sith’s, they only deal in absolutes.
For what it’s worth it’s ridiculous and frustrating. I’ve been in the same spot along with many others.
Hey at least they replied with more than one word. r/worldnews banned me for saying some sources with the words Jewish in the name might be biased when they are talking about the war in Gaza. Got a one word answer "bigotry" then nothing, muted. It's nice that they at least talked with you, that's a win with the shitty reddit mods.
Lab leaks happen all the time. They just don't usually result in mass epidemics, much less pandemics. But they certainly could, and that should be investigated and discussed. I've never understood the anger the lab leak theory riles up in liberals (disclaimer, I'm also a liberal).
Kinda reminds me of the headline being reposted around Reddit: "Florida's dean of medicine was banned from Twitter for misinformation after he linked results of a scientific study into COVID vaccines."
The majority of Redditors just respond "hahaha Florida dumb..." They don't even for one second consider the possibility that the dean of medicine might know more than a twitter employee. They don't stop to question how providing a link to official research papers could be construed as "misinformation" when a link itself makes no claims. They certainly have zero interest in looking into the credibility of the research paper in question.
The Irony is that Twitter has now been bought out by their arch nemesis Elon Musk... So now what? Is the word of twitter censors still the infallible word of God? Or are they finally willing to admit that they are subject to corporate interests now that they personally hate the CEO?
Its misrepresentation with the goal of misinformation. And actually a really good catch by the Mods there, I don’t think they should have censored it though. This is a press release coming from a select sub committee. Not one had any proof. By keeping up the link people could have watched the video and been able to see it was the exact same grandstanding from the TikTok & Hunter Biden related hearings and in the future will be able to learn that press releases aren’t real official documents. They didn’t get evidence, they got to make quotes for the morning news. I believe ppl can figure it out on their own.
Still it’s information from a government committee and legitimate comment of may have indicating a possibility not a fact.
Not misinformation in the slightest.
It says “mounting evidence continues….” There was no proof presented. The discussion mainly focused on them arguing if the possibility properly investigated by the health organizations. There’s not even a decision if there will be an official investigation yet, since the consensus was if it had China has since covered it up. Go watch the video. The line used in the link is the sub title of the press release. A line decided upon by one of the chairs. If that was the case every sound bite a chairperson made to the press would be “Official”, it’s not.
And what makes you qualified to say it’s misinformation? When the government says to wear a mask and get a vaccine they’re gods to you but when it disagrees with you it’s misinformation.
The United States Government did not say that COVID was created in a Wuhan Lab. One agency that isn't the CDC said that. No one agrees because they have no evidence.
What was the verbage used for this report declaring the likelihood of an artificial origin for COVID 19?
The phrase "____ degree of certainty/confidence" generally means they have zero proof to back up what they are saying, but that they think it's true. The
I'll be honest, I'll trust the general consensus of the people who make a living studying disease more than a document from the House- which Congressional reps signed off on it? What are their qualifications to make definitive statements on the subject of virology? What evidence do they cite? (I really hate to add this, but tell me I'm wrong) what party are they a member of?
I mean, to be fair, the US government (along with the rest of the world) doesn’t believe it was made in a lab, and you did post harmful misinformation that was against the sub rules.
To add context, and not in an argumentative way as the hypothesis has the possibility to be correct:
The linked hearing was extremely political and holds about as much scientific fact as any other US congress hearing. The Rep who held the hearing is in fact a physician, a Podiatrist to be exact, but is still a politician. The main witness, a virologist placed in charge of the CDC by President Trump is an expert in the field.
He stated (and reaffirmed in later statements): that his belief that a lab leak was possible centered around 2 main points. 1. The virus spread unusually fast for a human disease 2. The virus was discovered in Wuhan; a city that has a lab that researches coronaviruses for China.
The opponents to the theory state in response that 1. Rapid spread could be of natural origin and 2. Most large cities in China are home to Labs that happen to study Coronaviruses (I thought this was a very interesting but strange fact). Therefore if an outbreak is discovered in any major city in China it is highly likely it is near a lab anyways.
As stated explicitly in the hearing linked by the OP all of their conclusions are based on “circumstantial evidence”. This doesn’t take away from the fact that this is an official US government hearing so it is probably acceptable to show it to people in support of your argument, just be aware it is not based on any direct links or facts but rather circumstances and circumstantial evidence. The witnesses make no attempt to pass off their opinions as anything more and aren’t doing any deceptive but rather drawing conclusions based on the information they have available.
Personally I think we as the American public will never see any direct link or affirmative answer. This is due to 2 reasons: 1: China is extremely secretive and would never on wholesale admit to it 2: the United States is extremely secretive and most likely wouldn’t go public either if they have found such links.
TLDR;
Within the “intelligence community” of the United States including the FBI, CIA, DNI etc. 2 agencies have said a lab leak is possible with “low confidence” and 5 have said either unlikely or unsure without a confidence rate. The WHO says it is unlikely, and China has said (surprise surprise) “no way josé”.
Just in case anyone is having trouble remembering what actually happened:
There was a period where the US lied and said it didn't come from China when everyone knew it did. Then the US eventually said they lied and it came from China, and everyone was like "ya we know"
Yeah... citing an investigation by a committee chaired by James Comer that was only able to come up with a "may have" conclusion probably didn't help your case.
Like, at all.
Uhh. Because they didn't find that. And the Whitehouse had a list of presidential accomplishments to make Donnie feel good. The US government isn't a source I'd trust. For anything.
It 100% came from the wuhan coronavirus laboratory.. anybody saying otherwise is stupid to put it bluntly. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out
So Reddit will ban you if you post info that the government itself posted?? So that mean Reddit censors think they are above the government?? Very telling.
I think it’s just from policy when this information was not known at the time. It was labeled as a conspiracy theory at first, which was hate crimes against Asians, to start to spike up more so I think it’s just automated and it hasn’t changed since
I was banned from that sub for the same reason because I stated gaucho initially lied about masks so the government could buy up all the N95's on the open market and one that was done they admitted masks work. In my rental to the ban, I shared a link to an interview where he stated exactly that and they didn't unban me.
I’ve been canceled from dozens of subreddits for simply sharing my opinion or a fact. Reddit consists mostly of Liberal commentators and moderators who spread hate speech and disinformation from their prospective. But as soon as they see a conservative point of view or stated fact BANNED FOR LIFE!!!
I got a warning and had my comment removed for drawing parallels with something. It was called a shitpost. When I objected, I was banned. Reddit moderators are some of the dumbest people on earth.
It was from a fucking lab dumb fuck. You going to tell me that the same lab that did leak SARS, H1N1, Swine Flu didn’t leak this Covid 19???? Just one big coincidence that it came from that same city. Just saying.
Nevermind that a chinese lab was recently found to be fucking with COVID and a mutation with a 100% fatality rate.
https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/news/covid-19-strain-kills-100-of-infected-mice-in-chinese-lab-study/
When the house oversight committee is controlled by a political group and they select only the evidence that they like, that's when it's misinformation. Which is sad, because we should be able to trust our government, but the same party that says we shouldn't, is doing the work to make sure we can't.
Reddit has become a complete sack of shit since they started prepping to go public. Accounts are being banned right and left for nothing. This entire site has become crap.
Well, it's reddit first off.
And the leftist--erm excuse, Cultists, will not allow any second guessing their narrative.
Do not question the Doublethink.
Come on guts, its fucking Reddit. This place is a seething mass of leftist ideologues and they're the mods as well. I am slowly dropping out of all politically flavored groups as discussion isn't possible. I stick around only for tech and automotive stuff and kink lol.
There a fine line between “likely originated from the lab” and “may have originated in a lab.” Truth is, nobody in this country knows and short of the Chinese Communist Party getting overthrown, I don’t think we’ll ever know for certain. But citing this is certainly not misinformation.
I got banned from there last week for sharing/stating scientific research.
When I asked the mod's why that broke the rules, they blocked my from contacting them.
If it weren't for Groupthink, some reddit's wouldn't have any "think" at all.
I didn’t say that. I didn’t even imply that I thought that. I commented on the arrogance of a single person to label what is or isn’t “misinformation”. I have zero earthly idea what caused covid or what made it jump to humans and I don’t pretend to know. Either one way or the other
I kinda understand. The House Oversight Committee is an unreliable, hella biased source. Seriously, go look at the articles on their website; it is a political circus.
There is nothing objective about it.
Bruh the fuck. I am an epidemiologist myself, you know part of the scientific community they claim have this as the consensus, and you worded and stated it properly, and the current consensus lines up with the statement you made. Science is a process not a set of facts, so it will change as we learn more over time.
God I hate people who don't get science makes progress over time.
The current running theory is ACCIDENTAL release due to shitty safety standards in China. Odds are a scientist working on the virus got infected due to China's safety standards not requiring a good vent for BSL 2 labs even when working with potentially airborne pathogens in animals.
Probably because it was from the House Oversight Committee. The one headed up by squeaky idiot James Comer. (Or it’s Gym Jordan, I can’t recall at the moment) They are a misinformation machine thinly disguised as a function of government at the moment.
For anyone actually curious, the US government hasn't indicated COVID-19 likely originated from the Wuhan Lab. A few Republicans misinterpreted a report and are using their ignorance to attack Biden with per usual. Funny enough, the Republicans doing so have all been in hot water for their connections to Russia and other dark money. I mean, what are the odds?!
I believe the line whenever they just made up whatever they wanted about the rona was “The science has changed” so. I think you got banned more so for not saying the line. Like forgetting to say “no homo” 😂.
You cited the House oversight committee...which is full of the nuttiest members of the GOP at present. It's chaired by James Comer and has Jim Jordan on it...
I try not to take it too personally.
Sometimes I get public pool flashbacks: everyone else is screaming and acting out all over and the lifeguard whistles and points at me?
Some subs are a free for all. Some prioritize “safe space” over all. It’s an intellectual minefield.
I mean u cant take the us governments word on stuff. This is the same government that ‘knew’ there were wmds in Afghanistan n iraq. The scientific community doesnt accept their claims about wuhan origin bc there isn’t evidence just a claim about probability
A couple things: 1. a political body released a political report. 2. It doesn’t say COVID likely cane from a lab, it says there’s evidence it might have come from a lab.
It might very well have originated in a lab, but to say the US Government has stated it probably did is not true.
The house over site committee press statements today are equivalent to Republican propaganda. They also have a statement regarding Biden family crimes based on the informant that was arrested days ago for lying about the Biden family committing those crimes.
That’s not to say that your specific link is or isn’t misinformation, but saying this is an “official US government statement” is pretty misleading.
Didn't the intelligence community specifically state that it didn't come from the lab? Using official looking sources the wrong way could definitely be misinformation and misinformation is indeed dangerous. On a popular subreddit I can understand why they would be careful that way. I haven't read the page you linked but I'm betting it's outdated or something. Unless I'm misremembering but I read like a month or two ago that the CIA and other organizations agree that COVID did not come from a lab.
That’s how it works on Reddit …. Don’t follow the liberal narratives being pushed, you get banned and they drop your karma and don’t let it raise back up so you can’t comment on other posts that are karma restricted…
That's still not the scientifically agreed upon cause..
The vast majority of scientists still believe it was from an animal.
and that wasn't official CDC info that was a house oversight committee run by Republicans.
so you were in fact were wrong and the ban was reasonable
Fun facts
- While the house releases documents and by nature of being the government, makes these "official US Government Statements," there's no universe in which this should be taken as authoritative. In this case, this was written post GOP control of the house, so the document reads like a fox news press release.
- The virus being leaked from a Wuhan lab is not reported by anyone outside of the conservative sphere.
- If you read the actual article linked, there was no direct evidence (even the report calls it circumstantial) despite the summarizing headline saying otherwise. Most of the discussion is asking why it wasn't investigated (it was...).
- Most importantly, asking whether it was leaked is not a big deal... unless you realize the context. [This is the context](https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2023/11/30/asian-americans-and-discrimination-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/). There's a direct link between such rhetoric and violence and discrimination against minorities.
As such, blaming WIV for the virus outbreak should, at this point, be considered a dogwhistle.
Conspiracy theories are ruining this world. Just live your life and be happy. There’s no use dwelling on shit like this. Especially COVID. It’s here and there’s no changing that. The origin story doesn’t matter because even if it was proven to be a lab leak, what would happen? Either nothing or more war. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Let’s just say it came from a bat and move on. Posting about it on Reddit isn’t going to break any ground if the truth runs deeper.
Damn, and half the time when I get literal threats and harassment, I can’t even get a text back from these assholes. 😂
Congrats on managing to have a conversation with a human, even if it didn’t go your way. Progress?
The US government does not have a position. (Not even sure what that would mean other than maybe the White House proclaiming?)
Various federal agencies, departments and offices have supported various theories including lab leak, and some have changed their leading theory over time.
The document you cite would also not be a government position, it’s a summary of a hearing that may one day be included in a report.
You need to cite one of the various reports from the federal government in support of a lab leak.
The house oversight committee isn’t really a great source, depending on who is writing the report. The partisan politics of Congress result in a lot of misinformation, which is sad.
That being said, the lab leak theory is not exactly disproven and is still a reasonable theory given the nature of the Wuhan lab’s work. I don’t think it can be dismissed as misinformation by itself.
Now if you are coupling the lab leak theory with governmental conspiracy bullshit that doesn’t have any substantial proof backing it up, then you might be entering the misinformation territory.
Some of these subreddits are just total clown shows. I got banned from r/justiceserved simply because I happened to make a throwaway comment on a post from r/joerogan that popped up in my recommend section (much like this post did). I'm not even a fan of Joe Rogan and it was just a post about something like, taking mushrooms and getting into a sensory deprivation tank lol
Reddit Is basically just a bunch of cucks trying to be important. At least with moderators. Probably all living with their parents with giant neckbeards drinking mead and playing elden ring
I mean... Everyone agrees it started in Wuhan. There just so happens to be a corona virus research center in that town. That's an awfully big coincidence to just ignore, and I don't really believe in coincidence.
But if that misinformation is coming from a government, we should be informed. Being knowledgeable is one of the best defenses of misinformation, we can’t disprove what we can’t talk about.
Reddit mods, regardless of you following the rules but if you offend them or your opinions doesn’t align with their narrative, banned! The way I see it’s just a bunch of nobody who have lots of free time (hence why they became mods) and this is the only make believe “power” they’ll ever have in their entire lives. Oh well, enjoy the $0 a year salary lol.
I like how they just use the vague language of “the consensus in the scientific community”, and then instead of just explaining it to you, they take your appeal as you pushing the issue further
The problem with the information is that it's part of a right wing conspiracy theory and the thing you cited is likely also produced by the right wing. Not that your party ever engages in falsehoods as facts, right? I mean, the leader of your party is just being picked on, because we're all so jealous of him, or maybe it's because he's an imaginary billionaire, and we aren't allowed to prosecute the rich.
If you give certain people the power to put out reports, who are dead set on an agenda, they're going to reinforce that agenda. Does the origin of Covid change the fact that your party downplayed a disease that murdered a million Americans? How about the leader of that propaganda going out and getting himself vaccinated against the disease he said was no big deal? He and his family all got vaccinated, because they didn't want to die from a disease they told our country was nothing to be concerned about. There are still right wingers who pretend the disease is nothing.
I had a supervisor who was one of those, and he caught covid and immediately went into the hospital. But it's "just a bad cold", okay.
Facts are neither right nor left wing. They are just facts. To presume that the wuhan corona virus escaped from the Wuhan Institute for the study of Corona viruses is not that much of a stretch
Funny that they don’t find government sources as true, but yet, when the current admin says that “gun violence” is an epidemic when there is nothing to support it, they spread it faster than Covid.
I got banned from a group and threatened with permanent suspension from the entire platform by a moderator for acknowledging a video that was uploaded BY THAT group.
In that video, a trans person is betting up a little girl and then violently body slams her with her own bicycle. And everyone in that Reddit group was laughing about it.
When I mentioned that the little girl couldn’t possibly physically defend herself from that person I got banned. And the back and forth that followed with moderator was ridiculous.
Lmao go post a scientific study or congressional report saying the vaccines worked on a conservative sub.
I love how you people always ignore that part.
That sub is run by some overly sensitive idiots. I got a ban for the same thing. And if I recall, it was for the same topic. I guess I pissed off those that still wear a political slogan mask over a surgical mask over a kn95 mask, covered my a shield and welding helmet while wearing nitrile gloves under snow gloves while driving their cars. They probably wear masks to bed, too.
Since when does truth matter here? Get with the program. Propaganda is the name of the game. If you need help understanding the rules please spend a year at any state run university. Then you will understand😁😉
Read my username... this app offers a way for the lowliest, most unacommplished people, to have a way to exercise a small amount of power they can use to shut down those they disagree with. They're a radical group of bullies, who are as bad as the police
I've been banned from both r/whitepeopletwitter and r/enlightenedcentrist for calling out "feminists" that celebrate male hardships (up to and including cheering about a significantly higher suicide rate). Reddit mods are some of the most hard-line thinking fragile ego having-est people you will ever meet.
Covid is so politicized it’s harming the progression of scientific discovery. I spent 20 comments convincing someone that CDC changed the definition of “vaccination” who was supposedly a bio major pharmacist.
But they kept calling me a conspiracy lunatic, despite that I only cited govt websites.
This happens with a lot of posts wherein the subject matter or opinion stated isn't politically correct or at least consensus among blue haired anal types.
This happens because Reddit is now owned by Advance media/Tencent, and they are colluding with the US govt and European govts to propagate narratives that are favorable to the globaloid establishment.
Reddit on paper seems ok as a discussion platform but these assholes that tend to moderate a lot are so fascist about what and how we can comment. Incels with no social skills shouldn't be in charge of forums.
like it or not reddit is very liberal and liberals tend to over censor. i got warnings and banned from groups from posting cdc, info with there links, world health org. and bunch of well known civial rights groups, or other government info. if they do not like the facts they become miss information.
The covidian cult will never accept that most of the “misinformation” items are all true. I’m talking about reasonable things obviously…not like “The vaccines have 5g implants”.
Between lab leak, fatality rate, severity for 65+, overcounting from covid vs with covid, cloth masks, vaccine stops you from getting covid…the list goes on. The cult will never accept it. They can’t. As Carl Sagan said: “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken.”
I also got banned for saying Palestine declined an independent state in 1948 in favor of declaring war on the Jews.
Everything I said was historical fact.
I just think people really don’t want to know the truth at this point.
You aren't allowed to expose the plans behind the great reset. People tend to forget things like the Tuskegee experiments and believe that governments are trustworthy.
“The scientific community”. As if science is one unified industry or something. As if science isn’t subject to change. As if anyone who unironically uses “well that’s what science says” should actually be giving their opinion on anything. As if the whole point of science is we don’t know anything and we’re trying to figure it out.
Reddit is a liberal hivemind and as such questioning the origins of Covid is a no go. It is funny as you they clearly can’t differentiate between actual misinformation (vaccines being more dangerous than the virus) and it being a plausible lab leak.
I was banned from r/therewasanattempt for disagreeing with the majority of miss information posters on the Gaza/ Israeli war. I got banned for disagreeing that the Israeli government were the real perpetrators and behind the October 7 attacks on their own citizens. I politely engaged in what I thought was a discussion/debate with one post. It obviously was not and many of the people that run these subreddits don’t want actual discussions and different opinions. They only want misinformation Silos to their left-field point of views.
Might want to send the Gestapo this!
https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC
Your cite is garbage. The press release is from a committee full of people using confirmation bias to justify its predetermined outcome. HUAAC had more integrity.
The mod’s reasoning is still wildly out of date. The current consensus in the scientific community is that the Wuhan lab leak theory is entirely possible.
Askreddit is a terrible subreddit. All the mods just listen to the most progressive liberal outlets possible and allow zero dissent. Reddit isn’t necessarily about free speech its more freedom to make your own echo chamber.
By giving modding powers to these quite frankly stupid individuals which in that case is regardless of political leaning those echo chambers just do not tolerate any dissent at all
Why do we need to see this in stark obviousness to demonstrate we're in the hall of doors full of echo chambers. Pick your chamber but don't make any noises that don't match.
I’m pretty sure that there was never a scientific consensus on the origin… Just that the scientific community didn’t want to focus on that while trying to contain/combat the viruses as was not helpful; the origin was not a primary concern not helpful the the primary objective.
I remember when scientific consensus gave us rules for witch hunting, compelled conformity with the idea if the sun orbiting the earth, and insisted the plague was God's wrath.
Based on the above absolute wins of scientific consensus- why would anyone ever use their own brain or reasoning when being told something that on its face does not make sense.....
such as some bat flying 800 miles to end up beside a research center that HAPPENS to be studying similar bat's and covid where this traveling bat also happens to just pass its bat virus across the zoological gap between itself and humans.
Even if you believe it was genuine incompetence rather than malice- the idea that the lab leak theory could be denied without positive evidence to the exact cause or an exhaustive audit of the site is silliness. And since we have neither to refrence.... looks like the most likely source is the lab. Which accounts for the travel distance of the covid strain from where it's found 800 miles away, it accounts for the strain showing up right beside a lab that studies similar virus, and it accounts for the virus jumping species in 2020 instead of any of the 100,000 years prior 800 miles away from where the virus had any natural business being
Just your average lunatic left wing answer. What? Normal people don't realize where you are? You're not allowed to have questions anymore. You accept what the demonrats say and move on. You racist.
It's not the admins job to debate conspiracy theories. It's a tough pill to swallow I know.
" There is no evidence SARS-CoV-2 existed in any laboratory prior to the pandemic,\[59\]\[60\]\[61\] or that any suspicious biosecurity incidents happened in any laboratory" from wiki. Whomp whomp.
Likely and may have are two different words. ‘I likely ran over your cat is different than, I may have run over your cat’
The reality is of course because of the authoritarian nature of china we will likely (not maybe) never know.
I will mention that vaccine development for COVID was quick because modern medicine has been preparing for a SARS virus to jump species for 20 years. Which is why there has been so much concern for bird flu and swine flu.
Did COVID originate in a lab? Maybe, maybe not. You probably shouldn’t have caught a ban though.
The irony? Banning someone for stating facts that you don’t want shared is the textbook definition of fascist behavior. Would bet your last dollar that the mod who bet you thinks YOU are the fascist.
You got banned because Reddit purposely creates echo chambers. Your post wasn't in line with the narrative being pushed on that sub... Also if you're going to be posting COVID related stuff on social media you might want to look into Troll Farms and Dark PR....
Not a theory. Genetic markers are like breadcrumbs that show the path of the pathogen. It may have just originated there, but it came from there. A simple look at the outbreak reports can show this.
Now was it man-made? I do not know enough about genetics to tell. My leading theories are 1) if it is not man-made, then it was a result of cross contamination between humans and animals where the virus mutated in a high density population. And 2) if it WAS man-made, then the location, timing and reason for it is most likely due to the Hong Kong revolts and Foxconn labor riots. A plague is the perfect excuse to bar freedom of assembly. I'm about 50/50 on either scenario. Losing the world's factory floor of communist slave labor would have destroyed capitalism.
It’s science that created the device that you’re on when you use Reddit. And it’s science taking care of your health when you get sick and you need to go to the doctor. don’t piss on scientists. You need them more than you think.
I like how you pretend the “government of the United States” has indicated that Covid-19 likely originated from the Wuhan Lab and not the reality that the highly partisan Republican led House Oversight Committee did…Huge difference pal.
The ban is justified.
You can't cite house republican insanity just because it's a "government document." The lab theory has never been proven to any reasonable degree and it's been disavowed six ways from Sunday by multiple organizations that actually know a thing or two about science. Citing the insane, biased ramblings of a political party opposed to all forms of scientific reasoning and critical thinking isn't the slam-dunk you think it is.
Are you referring to the Wuhan Institute of Virology? I'd like to see some evidence on your part because a Google search for "wuhan coronavirus laboratory" yielded no results for such a facility.
It doesn't do me any good to link to a bibliographic article from a leftist rag like this, because a liberal will find some reason to trust Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, no matter what it says.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/25/timeline-how-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-suddenly-became-credible/
Sending an opinion piece behind a paywall isn't as clever as you think it is. Anything from an Internationally accredited scientific committee? The CDC? The World Health Organization? Hell, maybe even the AMA? Science has no bias.
Science has a metric fuckton of bias. But that's neither here nor there.
I'd love to hear the liberal psyops version of the story that explains how:
1. A coronavirus, first discovered in 2013, was stored at the Wuhan Coronavirus Lab
2. That coronavirus had a 96% genetic similarity to the one that was discovered in Wuhan in November 2019
3. The people first hospitalized for infection in November 2019 were scientists working at the Wuhan Coronavirus Lab
4. But these things are unrelated, and it came from a pangolin.
Nice edit! Again, your argument is a non-starter because it doesn't refute nor even address the original point. Does the Wuhan institute of Virology exist? Yes. Do they do research on all sorts of naturally occuring viruses and pathogens? Yes.
Was the Coronavirus Pandemic started from that facility by virtue of the lab's existence? No. No evidence points to that. Nor have you been able to gather any in your frantic scramble. Not every pandemic has some action thriller movie origin.
If you’ve ever wondered what it would be like to live in the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, or other totalitarian States, imagine that the people who run Reddit are the only ones with guns and they’re in charge of the government.
Except that site is for a republican committee that doesnt actually do fact finding. It does NOTHING but promulgate conspiracy theories.
Nothing in that site has been validated as factual. They give voice to the nut jobs without proof and cloak it in the cover of "fact finding"
Jesus, people are stupid and you were rightly banned for pushing that.
Admins on a power trip. Banning people for political statements are a political statement. Calling something misinformation ( as we all know) doesn't mean it isn't true. The election wasn't stolen, Trump is a crook. Arent these statements considered true yet? Because one disagrees with a fact doesn't make it misinformation. I know how you feel. There is no recourse, but at least they answered you, unlike Facebook or youtube.
Pushing an experimental vaccine, that we are still learning the side effects of (which include myocarditis and neuronal diseases), is simply evil. But apparently we can make mRNA vaccines that are "safe and effective" even though the official CDC site itself says they are not, but it's impossible that the Wuhan Virology lab developed covid-19?
Fuck every internally (and likely externally) ugly, disgusting, reddit mod.
We’re still going with the bat screwed a monkey in a fish market story when there is a level 5 coronavirus research lab across the street?
In that case, you should’ve been banned.
Unfortunately, citing facts is a sure-fire way to get banned. Some of these subs run off of critical theory instead of the scientific method, ergo, the conclusion is decided first, then all the supporting BS comes after.
Whenever the world consensus is used for scientific data...it's bullshit
Science is not consensus driven. It's called the scientific method...my 4 year old knows more about science then these moderator clowns.
it's so crazy seeing the new information about this asynchronously get accepted by sections of society, like the Band-Aid has already been ripped off. There's been numerous matter-of-fact non-partisan discussions about the censorship that went on during Covid, but some people just did not get the memo.
with the advent of AI it will never get better, bots could outnumber people five to one online and we would never know. Nobody is auditing anonymous Reddit accounts, censorship and fake public sentiment will reign supreme from here into perpetuity
Ok Boomer. Your generation literally set up the system for yourselves and have kept changing it for your benefit through your dotage. That’s why there are so many geriatric mfer’s still in congress.
This site unironically has the most arbitrary and targeted censorship of any major social media site. Even Facebook isn't this bad. The mods were 100% bullied in high school and using the platform to seek vengeance on the world that shunned them.
Eas banned in an animal sub cause cause they were all saying " its way better when the censor the blood ... on a 12 year old face ... from being red to WHITE"
I said " gross, ... ist white in this case worse... sickos??!!??
Banned in about 30 secs, still grosses me out.
Yeah they banned me when I said there was pretty apparent fraud in the 2020 election, that shutting down voting in all the swing states in the middle of the night and suddenly flipping them all for Biden was evidence enough for anyone but those with their heads buried in the sand.
They no likey other opinions.
Well, they banned you appropriately it seems. What was it, 65 court cases and Nada. Giuliani and all the other crooked lawyers out there trying to make a buck off of lying.
Idgaf about lawfare. What I saw that night was impossible without cheating. Don't worry, we'll likely be cheat proof this year. Nobody is buying the msm bullshit anymore. We'll, at least nobody, but sheep beta soyboys.
Isn't it funny that: A, even though we basically know that it came from a lab their cognitive dissonance won't let them acknowledge it, and B: the irony (according to them) it's racist to look down on the third world, but also Chinese people have brutal wet markets so disgusting that it released a plague on the world; instead of thinking that it came from a lab filled with scientists. Leftist minds in a nutshell, contradictions galore.
They're right. That's misinformation. It's coming from US officials, but it's still misinformation. I hate to break it to you, but politicians lie sometimes.
I hate to break it to you, but literally no one cares about your personal opinion. US officials have access to more accurate information than you could ever dream of.
Sure, but elected officials in Congress will lie for their own reasons. The actual people who are scientists who work for the government do not believe this virus ever came from a lab, and there has never been any evidence it was ever in a lab before isolation from wild type strains in circulation between humans. The opinion of the actual experts is that it originated in the wild and was not leaked from a lab, and, again, there is precisely zero evidence pointing in another direction.
None of that is personal opinion, it's all just raw facts. If I was to state my personal opinion I'd say that some Republicans in Congress are either stupid enough to believe a lie which doesn't have evidence or don't care about the truth, because their political party tolerates and even encourages politicians to make dishonest statements which confirm the priors of their political base, which is largely composed of rubes without critical thinking abilities. But that's all opinion. What's fact is that there isn't any evidence of it being at all man made and that the vast majority of experts agree it was a completely wild virus.
I don’t agree with the ban, but I think I can help you understand how it is misinformation. That House Committee report, itself, is propaganda. They brought in some baseless information, disregarded information that didn’t fit, and dropped context to make a political argument. It’s sad, but that is how the house committees work these days.
There was plenty of valid information in the hearings. And there is a lot to learn from many of the witnesses. But what ACTUALLY happened in those hearings was that some people repeated conspiracy theories, and others speculated on how it could be true,but nobody brought any evidence forward to support the claim.
I don’t know whether Covid started in a lab or not. I also know that nobody in that hearing knows, either. But the Republicans spun a report to validate their voting base’s biases. It is misinformation, and being a government report doesn’t change that unless it provides evidence.
So I don’t know the comment you posted this in. But if you took this report, and repeated it as factual information, you shared misinformation. Should that be ban-worthy? I don’t think so. I don’t think this is harmful misinformation. Nobody gets hurt by imagining different origins for the virus. But at least you should know WHY it’s misinformation
I’ve got $100 that says if a virus originated from a deli counter 4 blocks from CDC HQ, this dumbass mod would never believe it wasn’t coming from CDC.
No surprise there. AskReddit doesn't exactly like anything right of Bernie Sanders, containing common sense, or inconvenient facts. They should change the name to LeftwingEchoChamber
Reddit is the ultimate echo chamber. It cleverly uses individual subreddits and non reddit affiliated mods to circumvent the constitutional liberty of free speech so that reddit is seen as a fair and free platform.
It isn't.
“Scientific consensus” rarely ever exists. Science is not a democracy. This means that if even 99% of scientists agree on a singular subject, the leading hypothesis/theory may not be correct. If there’s even a single counter point, back by logic, science, and math, you have multiple perspectives. There isn’t a good way to showcase which one is true, until you are able to disprove the other side.
Yeah I'm just going to go ahead and post this on my page to spread awareness of Chinese misinformation and propaganda on reddit trying to manipulate the platform.
I mean, it probably has to do with oversight.whitehouse.gov being run by James Comer, who is a notoriously unreliable source for information, and fairly involved in multiple conspiracy theories, but go off I suppose.
OP, I just responded on your behalf on AskReddit. Btw, I spent 4 years on a gov Covid working group and you are correct. The Reddit admin is spouting counter misinformation. The bar has never been lower.
Tencent (a CCP controlled company) owns a significant portion of reddit. There have been many examples of truths about china being removed by mods and admins I wouldn't be surprised if this post is also removed.
Reddit is mostly far left. Truth is often censored if the delicate sensibilities of those with their fingers on the censorship button are even slightly hurt.
Didn't the mental moron Fauci admit that it was credible?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-finally-admits-to-covid-failures-saying-lab-leak-is-credible/ss-AA1mL9dU?cvid=ba1b49c7377e46dea88b0a783fc415bc&ei=33#image=1
I didn’t know this sub existed!! I’m always battling Reddit for their censorship it’s not okay!!! And shame on all those who are ok with it because it’s happening to someone else, what ever happened to “ I don’t have to agree with everything you say but I’d die defending your right to say it”
Because reddit receives investments and backing from tencent which is affiliated with the CCP. If you're too anti CCP your going to get banned and censored. That's what happens when China starts getting a hand in companies. Look at Disney
Deserved. Just because a government, even if it is the government of the most "powerful" country on Earth says something, does not mean it's true. The scientific community, which has all authority on *things that have to do with science* says that the Wuhan lab leak is a conspiracy theory.
The “scientific community” does not say it’s a conspiracy. It’s still an open question especially when you consider how little evidence there is for zoonosis when it comes to SARS2. All we have to date is circumstantial evidence on both sides.
Amazing that it zoonotically originated in Wuhan, which also has that big lab in which they're conducting research on just those sorts of viruses, though! You can see why all the idiotic conspiracy theorists, including the White House, might be confused.
The fact that a random person on the internet can prevent someone from using part of a companies resources that they don’t work for or get paid by blows my mind.
I was banned from a state subreddit for simply having a right leaning take in a subreddit heavily left now
I think there is a difference between “may have” and “likely” - the former allows for the possibility while the latter declares probability.
I would say that is all on you.
Why not just educate you instead of banning you, though? This is why social media is so harmful, it’s exacerbating the “other” mentality related to us vs them thinking and limiting conversation. This is literally what drives people to falling for cult leaders because it creates outcasts.
Well the new strain that is 100% lethal most definitely was modified in a lab so if that doesn’t give you a head scratcher idk what to tell you. Fuck all these people for censoring free speech and thought
“tHe CuRrEnT cOnSeNsUs Of ThE sCiEnTiFiC cOmMuNiTy…”
Don’t question the sacred priesthood, apostate. You will worship at the altar of the New God and His Apostles and like it.
If it was the "Scientific Consensus" then he would have been willing to site his source. The real answer is that we don't know, but there are several possibilities. Winnie the Pooh probably knows, though and the fact that they're not talking speaks volumes to which one I think is most likely.
That's dumb as fuck.
Idk how the Reddit algorithm recommended me this post, but nice.
There is so much stupid BS from the janitors on this site.
Very, very few subs with reasonable mods and reasonable people that won't downvote shit into oblivion because it doesn't 100% line up with their religion, or uh, "political views"..
Glad I found you guys. Lol.
I went back and read your comment that got you banned.
Couple of things to point out.
1. Your comment stated that "this is what happened" when the portion I'm bold of the article you highlighted says, "...evidence suggests it may have..."
2. It is NOT an official statement from the US govermentment that the virus was created in a lab. It was a hearing about the origins of the virus in which testimonies were taken and then recapped in bold as such is the statement you provided.
It's common for people to claim they were banned for speaking the truth when the "truth" they're speaking is taken out of context and misrepresented. In this case, your comment is misleading and not representative of what the article is saying.
Either you were willfully misleading or didn't understand the context in which the statement is given.
Most people will simply see the bold statement you provided. See the .gov and believe it to be true, but sometimes digging a little deeper in context will provide a better picture.
It's what was taught to me in ministry school when interpreting the Bible. Context is key.
Probably because of the wording. The virus itself didn't "originate" there, the outbreak of said virus probably did. Per the official report:
"The IC assesses that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, probably emerged and infected humans through an initial small-scale exposure that occurred no later than November 2019 with the first known cluster of COVID-19 cases arising in Wuhan, China in December 2019. In addition, the IC was able to reach broad agreement on several other key issues. We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon. Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way. Finally, the IC assesses China’s officials did not have foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak of COVID-19 emerged."
Posts link to government website= “harmful misinformation” tbh I’ll go along with that, but not for the same reasons the neckbeard banhammer mods will!
It is so painfully obvious. I can’t believe propagandists think they can gaslight the public into believing it wasn’t a lab leak. The public is quite stupid, but not quite *that* stupid. Unfortunately for them, the facts are well-known and easy to find.
Things I have noticed:
\- Critical thinking seems almost nonexistent.
\- Nowadays, if you disagree with someone in a conversation and they lay out facts and figures that contradict your perspective and opinions, you can just accuse them of something like racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. or the general label of hate speech.
\- Misinformation is now the label used when information doesn't align with the views of those in charge.
It doesn't matter if the government thinks that covid likely originated from the Wuhan lab.
Trump said it, so that means it HAS to be misinformation, and everybody HAS to treat it like a "conspiracy theory."
Hopefully the upcoming court case will help them understand. What really happened. Some of the people that were silenced by the government. Through social media. And, youtube. Are not going to let it go. When actual doctors tried to look at it from a different view. They were taken off the platform. And, many lost their careers. For having a opinion other than what the government wanted people to think.
Wait? This makes me start to think, you are trying to indicate that it may be possible, under some interpretations, that Reddit mods might just be pushing their own political agenda!?
Ah you see heres the problem.
First, the wuhan lab theory is not substantiated no matter what the House wants to say. A team from the US was sent to the lab in question in 2021 and they reported the idea that the virus originated from the lab was “extremely unlikely”.
The other piece of this puzzle is motivation. Why are so many people invested in putting forth a narrative that China is responsible for covid 19, either through incompetence or, as some conspiracy theories suggest, through malice?
This is where this unsubstantiated information about the Wuhan lab becomes dangerous misinformation. Certain political ideologies benefit from hatred of certain out groups like the chinese. Over a million Americans are dead from Covid, and countless more have ongoing health issues from it. Theres 500 million guns in the US and a cultural history of gun related violence.
You really think that telling people with access to weapons and a penchant for using them that a certain ethnicity that also is represented here in the US is responsible for the virus that killed their loved ones or crippled them is going to go well?
Innocent people here in the US could die from this assertion about a lab on the other side of the planet.
Reddit doesn’t like anything but very left wing American political views. Most moderate and right leaning view get downvoted into oblivion regardless of sources.
Funny that the mod banned you for misinformation while “citing” misinformation in their reason for the ban.
It is still the official theory of both the EPA and FBI that more likely than not covid-19 was a lab leak.
I love the assertion that there is general scientific consensus, but not a single reliable source was provided to prove as much. It's still a matter of constant debate and questioning, even by subject matter experts. That's not a conspiracy theory, that's simply a point of dicussions/debate.
Ah, yes
Like the time i posted about having a blackbear in my yard which was kinda cool and mods deleted the post, claimed it to be fake, and that if it were real i wouldve called the cops.
'I live next to the woods, if i called the cops every time an animal walked into my yard theyd just stop answering after a while. Also, its a fucking blackbear. Im not scared.'
Basically got 'nuh uh, i was a cop (in a city) and you absolutely totally have to call 911'
Why the fuck would i call an emergency line about a small docile species of bear that was just minding its own business in the woods that it lives in, *after its not even there in the yard anymore?*
Mod just wanted to flex being an ex-cop, i guess?
Fun times.
People need to stop deifying "the scientific community".
They are flawed, corruptible, biased... like everyone else.
And that shit DEFINITELY came from a lab.
The house oversight committee a terrible, terrible source. Read what scientists think, not politicians. All you have to do is read the Wikipedia page to find out that’s false.
Ah yes, the mainstream scientific community has never been wrong nor humiliated by “conspiracy theorists”
They said Continental Drift was a conspiracy until it was proven right, they said that Babylon was the first civilization and called anyone who claimed otherwise a conspiracy theorist.. until Boncuklu Tarla and Göbekli Tepe were found from 12k years ago, even the “wet market” theory is no longer the belief among mainstream science and this mod has no clue what he’s talking about, it was suggested from the beginning that the lab leak was true and everyone was mocked for it until whistleblowers in china itself came forward and it was found the lab had SARS-CoV-2..
Create another account to get back in. If they ban you, continue creating more accounts & if they siteban you, drive to a different city to create an account there. Once they realize banning you won't do anything, their incentive for doing so will continue to deteriorate until they are forced to stop.
This is a common misreading of the report. Done deliberately for propaganda purposes.
The inquiry determined two points that are relevant here.
The Wuhan lab leak was POSSIBLE.
The zoonotic explanation fits "most likely" scenario based on sequencing analysis.
You were wrong then and you're still wrong today.
Ban deserved.
Way to misrepresent what you shared. This statement was made by the house oversight committee, which is currently controlled by the republicans, a party that has proven to have a vested interest in making unsubstantiated claims about the corona virus and it’s origins. If you had shared something from an actual reputable group, or like the CDC or something, maybe you would have a leg to stand on, but this ain’t chief.
Yeah, new iteration of "somethingSomething Uncensored" which is just a conservative off-shoot and basically propaganda campaign that just spams out the dumbest stuff possible while calling other sub-reddits echo-chambers.
The director of the FBI says, “the FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan.” I’m not sure that I agree with the suggestion that sharing the opinion of the FBI is “spreading harmful misinformation.”
Because it is misinformation. There’s only 1 or 2 intelligence agencies (department of energy being one of them) that issued their statement regarding the origins of covid 19 as being from a lab, with low confidence. Many of the other agencies issued their statement saying covid is likely from natural origins, with low to moderate confidence.
If you go on GOP oversights YouTube channel you can watch the entire hearings. I watched the hearing on the origins of covid with Dr. Anderson and Dr. Garry, two scientists who worked with Dr. Fauci on the proximal origins paper. The two researches explained everything. The representatives of the hearing had genuine concerns that were answered and explained, yet on their oversight website they posted bits and pieces that tried to make the two scientists look bad. If you watch the whole hearing they respond to the objections very well. Watch the hearing. Don’t just read their website.
You kinda did. You made the inference that the Oversight Committees finding were based on partisan politics, then cited three scientists who **all** have a history of bullshit. Funny how quickly people forget Fauci was one of the *founders* of the theory that you could catch HIV by being in the same room as someone who had it.
Fauci said that in 1983. 40 years ago. Two years after aids research began, while it was still very early and new. Viruses were known to spread via air so it was a guess. How are you intellectually honestly bringing that up? If you genuinely think something someone said 40 years ago when research on the topic was very new discredits them today you’re not worth talking to. I didn’t “cite three scientists”, they were the ones who worked on the paper that the fucking hearing was about. Did you watch the hearing? Why did GOP oversight cut the clips to not include Dr. Andersons response that explain?
Subcommittee representative: “Dr. Fauci told you in an email to try and disprove the lab leak theory. This is evidence you’re hiding the truth”
Dr. Anderson: “uhm no. It’s called falsification. That’s how science works. I was told to falsify the natural origins theory too and that’s why I gave arguments for it coming from a lab originally”
Like anyone with a bit of a scientific background understands what falsification is in the scientific method. It’s embarrassing for the subcommittee to clip that as if it’s a win and leave out andersons response. Which is why I said to watch the whole hearing and don’t go off of what one side says. Look at both sides.
Yeah because Fauci isn’t the same homophobic dipshit today that he was in the 80s. Right. I brought it up to highlight the fact that political scientists like Fauci work in *their* best interests, not pure science. But of course that went right over your head because it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Friendly reminder that scientists are fallible humans, regardless of the alleged scientific process they claim to follow religiously. They are susceptible to influence and bias, as well as monetary incentive (most of all). History is **full** of scientists being dead wrong on almost everything and taking decades to centuries to correct their own mistakes that were rooted in their own biases. An organization who has something to lose if it is revealed they are somewhat responsible for an epidemic can not, and should not, be trusted to audit themselves.
This comment shows a deep misunderstanding of science
Even if that were true, you called it a "theory" right there. How does a theory become a lie to start with, it's explicitly telling you it's an interpretation that is open to new evidence
With disease outbreaks it's much better to overreact than to delay action out of respect. Think of the families who continued the tradition of washing deceased family members and ending up spreading the ebola further to their own relatives
So that's my guess on if it were true, why it might be reasonable?
Because it elicits emotional discussion like this thread right here
There is no new or credible information I'm seeing here. If this is the best evidence you've got after this many years, it's coming up deeply lacking
And just for a point of understanding. My understanding of the evidence _for_ lab leak is that, at time of writing the paper I found, they claim we know a bat species with a corona virus that is a 93% match. And there was no population found of a closer virus that infected humans. With there either being a missing step, or modifications by human researchers?
And that if it happened it was an accidental leak.
Because any malice would have been shown by this time, or craziest case that it was a bioweapon that backfired? That is the point it becomes pure conspiracy theory. A cover up is required at that point. The lab leak accident theory is reasonable enough to investigate, but that's what it takes, on the ground investigation, not a discussion online. Is the other reason it's misinformation, it quickly becomes wild speculation, not theory
Because you are presenting a THEORY as if it were a FACT through misrepresentation despite the fact that there are several other theories with more credibility.
>Because you are presenting a THEORY as if it were a FACT
I'm not.
**Your** defining it as misinformation **IS** what makes it definitive in your zeitgeist, and thus you are creating your own perceived enemy.
Classic triangulations of the dissociated tribals.
Very easy to actually.
* Ignore data that doesn't fit the narrative.
* Use peer review to block any paper that contradicts the narrative.
* Draw unjustifiably strong conclusions from partial data.
* Decree that this is the consensus.
* Intimidate, harass and censor any scientist that disagrees.
Congrats, you've just made "science" lie.
Then do some research. Wild deer and wild minks have been found with covid. If you’re referring to finding it in bats, then you’re not understand how viruses work, and you must also not believe that Ebola, nipah virus, and marburg virus, and even HIV. HIV is believed to have coke from some primates, because they have SIV, a similar virus to HIV. Upon human transmission it mutated into HIV which is what we have now. No chimp or monkey has been found with HIV, only SIV. In the same way bats have been found with similar coronaviruses to covid-19
Umm... how many years has it now been and there's been no host that they could ever locate? Given the activity in the city of Wuhan as assessed by our intelligence agencies, it is now abundantly clear this came from the Wuhan lab, not saying it was intentional but it certainly originated from the lab.
I know. The department of energy doesn’t imply it was an intentional lab leak either. Conspiracy theorists add that in themselves. But no, that’s now how this works. There are tons of viruses we say with high confidence came from animals without finding the same virus strain in the animals. It’s usually a slightly mutated version, which is what we’ve found in bats. It’s still possible it came from a lab but it’s not very likely. See my other comment on this thread
And what are you basing this finding on? The fact of the matter is that Chinese government has been unwilling to cooperate, GI Wonder why? Again, the activity in the city of Wuhan about the time they believed the virus began to spread and the death of many scientists within that laboratory surely seem to prove it originated from the lab.
Which finding?
Yeah gee I wonder why communist China would reject countries they have tension with going through terabytes of their data. It’s not like it’s a massive privacy and national security issue as well.
You're finding that it may have come from the lab but not likely..
Again, given that there's no host and an uncooperative Chinese government, all the circumstantial evidence points to a lab leak like numerous scientists dying, Fauci admitting to doing gain of function research with coronaviruses and what hour intelligence agencies tell us where the activities of the citizens of Wuhan when the outbreak began.
No. I believe you’re smart enough to know what you’re sneakily doing here. “The USA government indicates covid came from a lab” and “I have a theory that covid came from a lab” are two different things. 1 is a false fact, the other a statement about your personal beliefs.
This logic only works if you precisely cut around reality and decide what "is government"around what fits your opinion.
The committee and the FBI are part of the government, weather you agree with them or not.
So currently, the US government is looking at more than one theory, and none of them are misinformation.
It’s a good thing when lab origin conspiracists get clapped for spreading bullshit. At best it’s all anti China/communist saber rattling and it’s probably more likely straight up racism for most of them. Come back when you have actual evidence for your conspiracy conjecture.
Sure thing, here you go.
> the FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan.
\- FBI Director, Christopher Wray
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html
The FBI has since backtracked on this theory for the same reasons the CIA has never supported it. They've found a lot of evidence that the Chinese government has suppressed data linking the outbreak to the Huanan market.
They don't want to be blamed for their wet markets causing a global epidemic and they don't want to shut them down.
If it was a laboratory outbreak then it makes no sense for them to have done any of this.
The WHO was eventually able to get China to restore the scrubbed data from GISAID that linked COVID to the wet market, but that was just one case of them covering it up.
You think the Chinese gov is gonna let investigators in there with actual evidence? No. They’re going to a sanitized site to see nothing. That’s how communist regimes work. China can’t afford for their people to see this fuck up, nor the rest of the world.
No evidence against a lab leak either, and it’s just woke pandering bullshit from y’all, eh?
Get your head out of your ass, it isn’t racist to think that a communist state would hide something to make it look bad? That’s not racist, it isn’t a problem with the Chinese people, it’s their completely ridiculous genocidal communist regime of a government. That’s the problem.
China is neither communist (they’re state capitalist) nor does it have the monopoly of hiding inconvenient truths. I believe there is quite a bit of evidence against the lab leak since the current consensus is that Covid 19 has a natural origin. It is not my or anyone else’s burden of evidence to disprove every wild and racist fiction yall create.
Are you insane….? Or are you a Chinese shill? You really don’t think that the leading party of china, the Chinese communist party, with a dictator, are communist?
I asked you, what about China is communist? What is your preferred definition of communism and how does China meet that criteria? China is not stateless, it has distinct classes, the means of production are owned by the state, not the workers. It’s copying the American economic system as much as possible, thereby running away from any principles of Marx if they ever followed any. It’s state capitalism. Literally, what about China is communist other than they use the word?
If this virus started in North Korea, and North Korea said “oh no. It definitely wasn’t a lab leak. It came from a bat. Sorry guys. Our bad. No more bats” and someone came along and said “huh. That’s probably BS, let’s go look. Oh wait. Everything’s super clean and suspiciously perfect. Must be okay boys!” You would not say it’s a racist conspiracy. Everyone would be like “god damn North Korea fucked up with this” people don’t realize china is as bad as North Korea with disinformation campaigns, propaganda, and controlling what information gets out.
That china is a communist regime that lies about everything. There’s just as good of a chance as a lab leak as there is this virus coming from a market.
Statements from politicians with a pattern of ethically and morally questionable behavior are quite often bullshit, yes 😂
Your ban was deserved I'm afraid.
The US covid response ranked amongst the worst in the world and consequently there have been ongoing efforts to shift all blame to China. But none of the research points to a lab leak - this claim is not only unsupported, but is undermined, by all available evidence.
>But none of the research points to a lab leak - this claim is not only unsupported, but is undermined, by all available evidence.
A smoking gun isn't evidence in and of itself, but when you find one unexpectedly, the discovery of which powerful entities are trying to suppress, it should incite your curiosity.
From the 2021 Vanity Fair article:
The leaked grant proposal struck a number of scientists and researchers as significant for one reason. One distinctive segment of SARS-CoV-2’s genetic code is a furin cleavage site that makes the virus more infectious by allowing it to efficiently enter human cells. That is just the feature that EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology had proposed to engineer in the 2018 grant proposal.
If there were any smoking gun proving a lab leak, everyone knows it would be wearing cement shoes at the bottom of the South China Sea at this point. China is an authoritarian communist regime, it would never, ever allow such evidence to surface, for it would then be blamed.
Meanwhile, there is also no evidence supporting a natural origin which isn't highly speculative and debatable. There is no smoking gun on either side of the issue. Why the lack of smoking gun makes the "lab leak" a conspiracy theory and doesn't make the natural origin less credible is curious... the kind of double standard that is typical of motivated reasoning.
And a cursory look at circumstantial evidence (which is all we have) makes it look really bad for a natural origin:
* In a natural origin scenario, you should see many foyers of the epidemic at points of interaction between the animals it came from and humans... you don't see that here, the pandemic had one and only starting point in Wuhan, a large city which just happened to home the biggest Coronavirus lab in the world
* In a natural origin scenario where a virus jumps the barrier between species, the virus should at first be really inefficient at infecting human beings as it's a function that should take a lot of mutations to acquire well. In this instance, the virus went right out the gate perfectly adapted to infect human beings, like its long mutational process to gain that function had occurred in a closed setting rather than in nature, you know, like in a lab.
* Plus, Wuhan is located something like 1 000 km away from the animal reservoir of the closest relative to SARS-CoV-2, which seems like an unlikely place for the sole foyer of an epidemic to occur.
* We have documentation (from grants and the like) proving that gain of function research on coronaviruses to make them more likely to infect human beings were going on at the lab in Wuhan.
Without any direct, concrete evidence, with only circumstantial evidence to go by, it's looking like the lab leak is more likely. The fact that some scientists now basically admitted they launched a campaign to discredit the lab leak without any data to justify it, when their own correspondance reveals they didn't think it impossible when they made that campaign, is even more curious and damning. I guess no one wants people to find out they have blood on their hands.
If you want to play the game of "guess the motive", I would say a lot of scientists and technocrats dream of changing the world, they think it would be better if individuals had a lot less freedom and the "experts" (they are a part of) could restructure the whole of society "for the greater good". The last thing these supports of technocracy want is for these same "experts" to be blamed for a pandemic that killed millions, or for their lockdowns to be viewed as the biggest public health mistake of the past century, for that would undermine the public's confidence in the "experts" and make them even less willing to agree to yield their freedom to the "experts" and their demands.
Most human infectious diseases are initially transmitted from animals, including the Ebola virus, the H1N1 influenza virus, the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), the SARS coronavirus (SARS), MERS virus, and now, the potent novel coronavirus, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).
Most major Chinese cities have one or more active coronavirus laboratories. The Chinese government established these laboratories after multiple spillovers of the first SARS-CoV in 2002 through 2004, which caused approximately 8,000 cases of severe respiratory disease worldwide and at least 744 deaths.
Viruses can emerge or reemerge large distances from the site of their initial spillover, and SARS-CoV emerged multiple times in Chinese megacities similar distances from where its closest bat progenitors have been found.
To this day, no scientific data exist to support a lab leak of SARS-CoV-2.
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/jvi.00365-23;jsessionid=058C0D8641D5FEB3042F20C666CE7E6C
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2214427119
The viruses you mention are all great examples of what I described as the usual zoonotic emergence, it is not concentrated in one place, the virus first jumps the species barrier and is poorly adapted to infecting humans, limiting its spread. Traits that are the opposite of what was seen with SARS-CoV-2.
The Wuhan lab is THE lab for coronavirus research in China. It's not just a small lab, it's where most coronavirus research occurs and has one of the if not the largest collection of coronaviruses.
To this day, no scientific data exists to support a natural origin of SARS-CoV-2.
SARS-CoV-2 displays several mechanisms of adaptation that enable it to escape the human defense barriers and take advantage of host cell resources for its profit. Like other RNA viruses, it shows a high proneness to mutate and, therefore, to adapt to new hosts and environments. There is substantial body of scientific evidence supporting a zoonotic origin.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00998-y
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9420317/
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00583-23
I fully expect you'll ignore all of this and continue to spread lies that you've unquestioningly accepted from politicians. All the while blaming your lack of evidence on conspiracy theories about political collusion, for which you also have no evidence.
No-one cares about your opinion, just cite the evidence.
All RNA viruses mutate rapidly, so why don't we face pandemics every year then? Why is jumping the species barrier so rare? The odds of a virus somehow magically developing ALL the mutations required to perfectly infect human beings while infecting another animal are really, really small. That kind of ability is gained gradually, not all at once.
There is no evidence for a zoonotic origin, all that you quote are OPINIONS, opinions from experts in fields with a vested interest in the virus being zoonotic because if not, they would face more oversight in their work, lose public confidence and receive a lot less grant money. So not impartial and neutral opinion.
You're the one spreading lies that you've unquestioningly accepted from authorities.
OK. So your belief in a lab leak is based on no evidence and you are going to ignore all evidence to the contrary. Truly exemplary research skills on display here.
>Why is jumping the species barrier so rare?
It isn't rare. The International Society for Infectious Diseases reports spill-over events that are reported throughout their network every day.
[promedmail.org](https://promedmail.org)
Subscribe to their emails and you'll see how relentless the spill-overs are. You can even watch a significant outbreak grow from day to day.
Sometimes it happens and we know about it. Other times it happens and we only know about it later through serological studies. In those cases, we see that a lot of people were infected but the pathogenicity was too low to ring alarm bells outside the outbreak zone. There is constantly so much happening everywhere all the time but unless we're studying it, we're not aware of it.
But you won't believe any of that either I suppose, because it comes from research scientists (AKA the aUtHoRiTieS). Politicians are just renowned for putting health and safety ahead of corporate profit, can totally see why you'd go with them and dismiss the entire global scientific fraternity.
It's based on circumstantial evidence and probabilities, same as the opinions you posted, except untarnished by personal interest and desire to CYA.
You're again proving me right, most spillover events are small scale affairs because viruses that jump the species barrier are not well adapted to infect humans. A virus that jumps the barrier perfectly adapted to humans is extremely unlikely.
You're not defending science, you're taking a stand against science by trying to declare without any evidence a lab leak to be debunked. This is completely unscientific, as the basic position in science should be "I don't know" until good evidence comes along. You are not defending the so-called "global scientific fraternity", you are defending corrupt stooges that put corporate pharmaceutical profit before health and safety. People willing to run the risk of creating pandemics to make a buck.
So, that is not the stance of the US Government. You cited an oversight committee document. You cited partisan politicians and nothing of any credible scientific weight.
Interesting that the FBI and Department of Energy stated there's more confidence that it was leaked from the lab then came from natural sources. It's been years with no host ever located. Don't understand why some want to give the Communist Chinese the benefit of the doubt...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html
Its not the benefit of the doubt. There is zero unambiguous evidence of a lab leak. Zero.
there is speculation galore.
Covid-19 is one of many in a long series of coronaviruses that have transitioned naturally from animals to humans. It is not implausible that Covid-19 is just the next in that line.
And yet years later and no host nor evidence of natural transmission. Only an uncooperative Chinese government and deaths of scientists within the Wuhan lab when the outbreak begin there... we were doing gain of function research with the Chinese, don't understand why some people have a hard time thinking it could have actually came from a lab leak, which is the most plausible explanation given the evidence.
>And yet years later and no host nor evidence of natural transmission.
This is not evidence, just conspiratorial thinking. A host is not necessary.
Being in a line of natural events, you need greater evidence of the lab leak to controvert the long trend of natural occurrence.
You are arguing for a suspension of the observed trend in favor of something you have no evidence for. That is not a persuasive argument. It isn't much of an argument at all, really.
There is no common sense here.
And if you have this evidence, such that you are persuaded, why are you unable to produce it?
And what is common sense?
You see a series of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 and think 9 comes next?
Or do you think 119 comes next?
Please, try to apply some common sense here and explain why 119 makes more sense than 9.
It's funny when some layman thinks he has more evidence and information then the Federal Bureau of Investigation of the United States of America and this country's intelligence agencies.
Laughable!
>Laughable!
Indeed, the blind appeal to authority is laughable.
You have not provided any evidence. For all we know, you are not even telling the truth.
Adorable.
Meanwhile... the other coronaviruses that jumped from animals to people...
229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1, SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, COVID-19.
So why is only the **last** of that line of naturally occuring jumps from animals to people the lab leak? Hmmmm?
Again, you are literally looking at 1-2-3-4-5-6 and instead of assuming 7 comes next assuming 117 comes next.
"Common sense" hahahahaaha
This is not new. Misinformation is banned on left leaning subreddits and factual information is banned from right leaning subreddits. Reddit has always been this way.
If you're a conservative interested in spreading disinformation, go to the conservative or conspiracy subreddits.
I think they should have just deleted your comment since it could just be a legit mistake but the lab leak theory is definitely not what the majority of scientists believe.
FBI Director Christopher Wray has said that the bureau believes Covid-19 most likely originated in a Chinese government-controlled lab.
"The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident," he told Fox News.
That was in march last year. And then 3 months later was debunked by the USA government.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-06-26/u-s-government-debunks-covid-lab-leak-conspiracy-theory-enraging-conspiracy-theorists
That’s putting toothpaste back in the tube. When you create a bioweapon SOP is you also create an antidote. This story had to be reversed or it would have shed more light on US bioweapon research. How did Pfizer already have the patent? They had to, it’s SOP.
Why wait three months to rebuke it? What sudden new discovery hadn’t been found in the prior 24 months. It’s only a conspiracy bc the public would be royally pissed if they admitted it. Hence my toothpaste comment.
Why is everything a conspiracy? Are you really that naive that you think shit like that is beyond reproach? It’s not like we’ve never done it before, on purpose… oof.
No, that's called science; making a hypothesist, testing said hypothesis, and validating the results.
People hypothesized a lot of origins for covid, then investigated what was the most likely to have caused it, and concluded it was most likely not a bio-weapon.
Deboonked...
By the government...
Who also deboonked the Gulf of Tonkin incident...
A government headed by Joe Biden...
Who was vp during the obummer administration...
And administration that funded Chinese biolabs...
🤔🧠🤔🧠🤔🧠🤔🧠🤔🧠🤔
Nah bro you right.
The New York Times on the same document says "U.S. Intelligence Report Finds No Clear Evidence of Covid Origins in Wuhan Lab."
The New York Times article also does not include phrases that were in the L.A. Times article that can in no way be from the mouth of a journalist like "That sound you may have detected rising from the ether of social media this weekend was the gnashing of teeth," and "their most cherished claims." Please do not link to an article about Covid from a "business columnist."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-report.html
Anyone who isn't a conservative conspiracy theorist not pushing the lab leak theory that the USA government and the vast majority of scientists have debunked?
John Stewart is a conservative conspiracy theorist?
The Intercept is a right wing website?
It just may be a coincidence that when Trump restarted funding gain of function research we had this happen?
I mean of course the same people making money through gain of function research are going to say it was some red neck uncivilized chinaman eating a bat that caused it.
[NIH Admits to gain of function research. says grant recipients failed to report Covid experiments](https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-says-grantee-failed-report-experiment-wuhan-created-bat-virus-made-mice-sicker)
Every single talking point you have is from years ago. Keep up buddy. Scientists and researchers agree the lab leak theory is probably wrong and the most likely way this came about was from eating gross wild meat that was infected.
I mean of course the same people making money through fear mongering and conspiracy theories are going to say it was some lab leak and we shouldn't trust science.
Where does an accidental lab leak likely do to lax tech standards that may have gotten someone sick turn into don’t trust science? That’s your leap. We pretend we aren’t doing gain of function research when we are. Obama was smart enough to put a hold on it for a reason
But it is what the FBI and special oversight committee believe. I don’t see how that’s, “misinformation.” Even if it’s wrong, it’s certainly not, “harmful misinformation.” Suppose it was misinformation (the FBI says it isn’t), how is it harmful?
That was in march last year. And then 3 months later was debunked by the USA government.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-06-26/u-s-government-debunks-covid-lab-leak-conspiracy-theory-enraging-conspiracy-theorists
And every other reputable study has showed the same.
1318 comments
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2 u/Acsnook-007 19 Feb 2024 01:00
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