>Suicide attempts among trans men
(46%) and trans women (42%) were
slightly higher than the full sample (41%).
>Prevalence of suicide attempts is elevated among
those who disclose to everyone that they are
transgender or gender-non-conforming (50%)
And that's just the people who have *attempted suicide*. Are you seriously suggesting the number of people who have experienced depression/anxiety or other mental illnesses is less than the amount of people who have attempted to commit suicide?
I think that has widely been known, and accepted, within the medical establishment for years now. Simply put, when what you think you are, and what you observably are - are at odds, there is a mental issue. If you think you are a cat, and are clearly a human - there is a mental issue. If you think you are a female, but can't help but notice your penis staring at you - then there is a mental issue. This isn't to say they don't deserve compassion, treatment, help or are in anyway less human - but they aren't fit for military work either.
What about the ones serving who have seen combat, are trusted by their teams, and have higher ranks commending their hard work. I suppose their dedication, hard work and sacrifice for our country means jack shit to you?
If we are going to say that we have to weed out this mental illness from the military, then we must also weed out the sociopaths, psychopaths and anyone who would want to be a career killer. Because wanting to kill is a mental illness.
All Americans are mentally ill until they commit an act of sacrifice against treason. ^^/s
> What about the ones serving who have seen combat, are trusted by their teams, and have higher ranks commending their hard work. I suppose their dedication, hard work and sacrifice for our country means jack shit to you?
- Be careful with matches with those strawmen you are working with. Lets see, do we sacriface and endanger 99% of service men and women, so we can make sure u/WTFppl feels better, or do we remove 1% of the service men->women and vise versa so that the vast, VAST majority of people are in a better, safer, and more productive situation. ... HMMMM??? What a hard choice.
>If we are going to say that we have to weed out this mental illness from the military, then we must also weed out the sociopaths, psychopaths and anyone who would want to be a career killer. Because wanting to kill is a mental illness.
- Unless the job is to, you know, kill. Which, not to make your head spin is precisely the job requirement for the military. How is anyone this dense? Also, AFAIK, they do weed those people out as well, and they also weed out people with shin-splits and flat feet.
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here are some facts from leaked emails and the NYT, tell me how this is a snowflake
>In April 2015 the New York Times published a story about a company called "Uranium One" which was sold to Russian government-controlled interests, giving Russia effective control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States. Since uranium is considered a strategic asset, with implications for the production of nuclear weapons, the deal had to be approved by a committee composed of representatives from a number of US government agencies. Among the agencies that eventually signed off the deal was the State Department, then headed by Secretary Clinton. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) comprises, among others, the secretaries of the Treasury, Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce and Energy.
>As Russian interests gradually took control of Uranium One millions of dollars were donated to the Clinton Foundation between 2009 and 2013 from individuals directly connected to the deal including the Chairman of Uranium One, Ian Telfer. Although Mrs Clinton had an agreement with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors to the Clinton Foundation, the contributions from the Chairman of Uranium One were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons.
You most certainly did. My favorite part about liberals today is *just how god damn sensitive* they are. Like holy shit you could say "I think welfare should be limited to a certain time period to help people get back on there feet rather than have people just live on it" and they will come back with "oh my fucking god you are a nazi that's so fucked you that you hate poor people! Fuck you" like wat
That doesn't give him any less of a right to speak. Also he does back his opinions with peer reviewed studies so have your negative opinion but you aren't doing anything to change his or anyone else's mind by just attacking.
It's just well known that trans people have serious mental illnesses that are outside of just the gender mental illness issue. Most people who get reassignment surgery also feel as if it was a mistake as well.
why waste money on training, testing, etc.... only to have to wind up kicking them out later on? It's all monetary related. Same reason why we don't let terrorists, hate groups, etc... into the military as well. Just too risky to let them in and waste money on them.
Because that's not how it works in the military.
They don't take those kind of chances. If there's even a hint that you're suicidal or a high chance you could be in the future? You're gone.
I read that most people who went through the surgery were glad they did it. That's why they thought it was okay to start changing it at the age of 6 or whatever
why are they just now banning trannys? maybe i'm missing something, but it seems like a no brainer to ban mentally defective people from entering the military.
ITT: People insisting that transgendered people, while needing to be protected from criticism, insults both perceived and real, and otherwise - above and beyond the needs of most - can nevertheless be trusted with military training and responsibilities.
Nice. Just the tip of the iceberg of why this ban is correct.
There's actually a civil discussion about it right now in /r/CMV that I thought was a good read looking at a lot of different points in defense of it with well thought out rebuttals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/6poifi/cmv_transgender_people_should_be_allowed_to_serve/?ref=share&ref_source=link
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/uncensorednews] [\/r\/politics Moderators are secretly removing arguments in favor of the Transgender Military Service Ban • r\/RedditCensors](https://np.reddit.com/r/uncensorednews/comments/6prupn/rpolitics_moderators_are_secretly_removing/)
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No surprise there. I've kind of just accepted that Reddit is always going to oppress differing political views. They are in the pocket of the liberal party the same as every major new network is. I've pretty much cut out all even remotely political subs except t_D because their memes are hilarious but seriously. This website is a fucking joke when it comes to political discussion. It's just a circle jerk of liberals beating eachother off over "hnggg muh trannies in teh military" and then anyone that offers an alternative view point is either downvoted to all hell or simply censored.
None of this is surprising to me anymore because this past election has shown us plain as day just how corrupt the left truly is. This is child's play compared to what they were doing in Washington.
The whole sub is a group of bots and shills attempting to convince the other bots and shills that theyre the majority of the country, without realizing they're all just bots and shills.
It's like taking two iphones and having Siri talk to itself back and forth, except with this, its zero sum, and both Siris are trying to convince the other Siri that they are human beings.
From what I hear, theres a significant portion of the LGB that wants to remove T from it.
LGB is about sexuality and the oppression thereof. T has always been about gender, and a lot of them feel that the inclusion of T conflated their sexuality with the mental illness that is gender dysphoria.
What are they hoping to accomplish? They will never sway public opinion. These fucking idiots will always get exposed and just lower the quality of the forum.
They're removing hateful unsubstantiated comments. The entire point the OP makes could have been made without inflammatory terms. Side not OP is also assuming the mental health issues are causing the desire to change gender & not the correct assumption the mental health issues come about because they don't identify with their current gender. https://www.extension.umn.edu/family/about/docs/mhtg-youth.pdf
>They're removing hateful unsubstantiated comments.
OP's comment was neither hateful nor unsubstantiated. Any other theories to explain how this isn't censorship?
>The source is bullshit
Feel free to expound upon this.
>OP comes along and says "you don't have the same rights as 'normal' people"
1) Quote, verbatim, where OP said this.
2) Explain how serving in the US Military is a right.
3) Explain your reasoning on how exclusion from the US Military is a violation of the rights of trans people but not a violation of the rights of people with ADHD, poor eyesight, mental health issues, visible tattoos, and/or poor physical fitness (pick at least 3).
>Yeah it's not hateful until they start saying it about you, right chief?
Again, there is nothing hateful about OP's comment.
> "you don't have the same rights as 'normal' people"
Access to the US military is not a right. The US military does discriminate based on age, weight, height, muscle density, physical capability and considerations along with mental ones.
if you have a record of mental issues, you can be rejected outright. Women are often not allowed on the front lines because a slew of psychological and physical considerations aside now you have to run more supplies through dangerous territories for femnine hygiene products.
Furthermore when you join the military you *are* discriminated against fully and entirely. If you are stocky and short you will likely end up carrying heavier gear for your squad. If you are too tall you cannot become a pilot, they make the pilots to fit the aircraft not the aircraft to fit the pilot.
So on and so forth. People who are purposely seeking to cement their *identity* are not going to be helpful in a place where identity is sacrificed for the sake of unity. You are not a man, you are not a woman, you are not black, white, latino, you are not southern, you are not northern, you are not west coast or east coast.
You are an Airman. A marine. A Solider. A sailor. Of the Us military. Full stop, nothing else matters, certainly not your gender pronouns.
>with no real sources
How about a peer reviewed study, jackass?
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8xg8061f.pdf
>Overall, the most striking finding of our analysis was
the **exceptionally high prevalence of lifetime suicide
attempts** reported by NTDS respondents across
all demographics and experiences. Based on prior
research and the findings of this report, we find that
**mental health factors** and experiences of harassment,
discrimination, violence and rejection may interact to
**produce a marked vulnerability to suicidal behavior in
transgender and gender non-conforming individuals.**
civilan support roles should be offered and trump is deluvering promises to the religious right and muslim voters (a lot of american muslims voted for trump strangely enough)
Do you think the military is a bastion of civility? Have you ever heard the conversations that go on in the barracks? If you think that a transgender individual is going to escape harassment by surrounding themselves by 18-22 year olds on a daily basis, I don't know what to say.
>Do you think the military is a bastion of civility?
Why can't it be? I'm not American, but I know that for my country's military any homophobia is expressly forbidden.
Edit: in fact, my older brother who was in the Navy got reprimanded for calling someone a faggot.
> Have you ever heard the conversations that go on in the barracks?
Yup. So are we going to ban women too now?
>If you think that a transgender individual is going to escape harassment by surrounding themselves by 18-22 year olds on a daily basis, I don't know what to say.
Except the higher ups can create a culture of acceptance and camaraderie. Just shurgging it off and saying "18 year olds are shitheads so lets punish other people because of it" is incredibly stupid and lazy.
It's not that crazy to think that the military should still treat soldiers like they're human beings.
>Then you have no right to an opinion on the US Military's policies.
Are you transgender? If you're not, you have no right to have an opinion on transgender people.
Also:
>Deflecting this badly
How about you actually address my point?
> You don't have a point.
I had several.
>You're speculating on the culture of the US Military, something you aren't familiar with.
And you know that ... how? And furthermore, how is that relevant? If they have a shitty culture it needs to change.
Because you aren't an American, and have never served in the US Military. Your opinion on the worlds most lethal fighting force as a foreigner is completely irrelevant.
From what it looks like in the comments, you haven't served either. So what makes you an authority? You are just finding ways to not listen to facts and opinions you don't like.
>Because you aren't an American, and have never served in the US Military.
Have you? Furthermore that's a stupid idea. Not all art critics are artists themselves. You don't have to actively work in a field to understand what they could do better.
>Your opinion on the worlds most lethal fighting force as a foreigner is completely irrelevant.
Nah. Considering our countries' armies have a long, long history of co-operation I think my opinion is valid.
Also consider than my brother, grandpa, cousin and best friend are all veterans. My cousin fought in Afghanistan and Iraq, where he got a very unique look into American military culture.
But of course, daddy can do no wrong right? All foreigners are wrong?
Look, at the end of the day you're only making yourself look bad by making this about me and not my points. It's like there's a term for that or something.
> Are you transgender? If you're not, you have no right to have an opinion on transgender people.
Well given the president isn't Trans, Mattis isn't trans, i guess you have no place to disagree with them on the subject.
See how it still works against you? In fact if you're trans your maybe .6% of the population so you probably shouldn't remark on well...much of anything then by that logic.
It makes good sense in the right context.
A person who's never even held a gun shouldn't be trying to lecture others on firearm safety.
A man shouldn't be lecturing a woman on how to properly apply feminine products or to get over the cramping and discomfort of her period.
A woman shouldn't be telling a man that getting hit in the balls isn't *that* bad.
And a foreigner shouldn't be telling someone else how to conduct the affairs in which they are largely ignorant aside from skimming headlines in the context of something that was only pushed into law *two years ago* and is now being revoked.
Funny how that works eh? It's almost like said people saying you don't have a place to comment might actually *know more about it*.
>Are you transgender? If you're not, you have no right to have an opinion on transgender people.
Are you? If not, better hold yourself to the same standards you're trying to throw up. There's a big difference between trying to judge another nation's actions from the outside vs. trying to assess how your own nation's actions can affect you.
The point, you simpleton, is that restricting criticism to only people who are part of a group is stupid.
People should feel free to make criticism and have their own opinions regardless.
You don't have to serve in the military to have an opinion on it.
You don't have to be an artist to critique art.
You don't need to be transgender to have an opinion on it.
*That's* my point.
>you simpleton
Where I stopped reading because people who have to START the argument with name-calling aren't worth my time. In fact, Reddit said I have to wait 4 minutes to post this reply, so I opted to go to the restroom, grab a drink, and deliberately work to not read your post because your inability to even feign civility lets me know there's no benefit to reading further.
> Why can't it be?
Well, you head off to fight ISIS and ask them to be civil as they're trying to kill you. War is not an act of civility, and worrying about feelings and manners is not the goal of the armed forces, nor should it be.
a study from 2014 that has been criticized for seeking the cause of suicide at being trans.
Main reason that transgenders have a 15% higher rate is because of : Rejection, discrimination abuse and outright Transphobia.
Something that this study has not included...they even say it themself at page 12 of the link you provided.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=transgender+suicide+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK1PeLjqjVAhXBZiYKHfTPCiEQgQMIJzAA
I suppose the numerous studies expressing the same sentiment are also invalid because they contradict your personal beliefs?
>Main reason that transgenders have a 15% higher rate is because of : Rejection, discrimination abuse and outright Transphobia.
Yet another reason this ban is the right idea. Someone so weak that they allow the words of others to dictate their emotions has no business in combat. Do you think the military is some bastion of inclusivity? The objective of the military is to be lethal, not a social program.
Heres Mattis on the subject
>"Since becoming the Secretary of Defense, I have emphasized that the Department of Defense must measure each policy decision against one critical standard: will the decision affect the readiness and lethality of the force?" "Put another way, how will the decision affect the ability of America's military to defend the nation? It is against this standard that I provide the following guidance on the way forward in accessing transgender individuals into the military services
Do you know more than the Generals?! Why does this sound familiar?
keep on posting more of that stuff.
Really drives the point home that you are not concerned about any military consequences. it is just that you just hate trans people...
Im going to block you now, i dont want to have a conversation with a person that is so unintelligent that hate is all they have in life.
>Facts are hate speech! You're a transphobic bigot! Your sources are inferior to the unsubstantiated dogma that I cling on to. I don't care about real science at all but I say that I do so people will think I have a valid point.
>Now watch as I voluntarily lose this debate.
Good job!
Funny that he kept posting scholarly sources and you called names, then used that name-calling as a basis to name-call him as unintelligent. No pot-kettle hypocrisy here, folks!
The thing is, even if the reason is because of rejection and transphobia, do you expect the US military to go to ideological war with the population to try and reduce transphobia so that the tiny percentage of trans soldiers feel better about themselves, or just continue their long standing tradition of disallowing mentally ill individuals from serving
No.
Lots of people get discriminated against for lots of reasons. Why is theirs so much higher? Why are they so much weaker mentally? It's because of their illness.
So ban people who have attempted suicide. This is like banning white people from working at banks because white people are more likely to commit fraud.
Look bonehead, everyone who serves is invariably asked "Do you have any history of suicidal ideation/mental illness/ have you been ruled incompetent or institutionalized?"
For the vast majority of transgendered people the answer to at least one of those questions is yes.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/07/26/transgender-airman-i-would-like-to-see-them-try-to-kick-me-out-of-my-military/
Please explain this person?
Neither you or u/seczar are being fair to this issue/question.
Considering suicide: Everyone does that. Period.
Planning suicide: This is the problem.
There is a giant difference between considering suicide, and having a plan to do it. Ask a therapist.
I don't claim otherwise, just that you're talking past one another, because you thinking about suicide is meaningless, meanwhile, your debate opponent is referring to the more serious situation of having a plan or real suicidal ideation.
Whatever... carry on the slapfight.
What degree does one need to attain to be able to psychoanalyse someone over the internet? Tell me what skill you used to determine my thinking about suicide is meaningless?
Being Transgender is a mental illness, so they're excluded.
I can see that the military doesn't have an intelligence requirement, or you would have never made it in.
Ha! The military doesn't kick people out for mental illness. What the fuck are you on about. I was in the military too, and I saw TONS of guys and girls get kicked out for mental illness.
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