v/programming: I hate my job as a web developer because there is zero creative thought. In what industry would I have the most creative freedom while programming?

I hate my job as a web developer because there is zero creative thought. In what industry would I have the most creative freedom while programming?

42 29 Apr 2016 23:40 by u/JesusChrist2

Basically at my job they have tried to turn everything into a protocol. We use these frameworks, program in exactly this way, in this order and when new projects come up 2-3 of the senior developers will do all of the creative work and make all of choices so they are the only ones who truly understand it. My parents worked in a factory. I became a programmer so that I wouldn't have to be a robot but that's pretty much what I am. My skills have gotten worse over the last two years at this job because there is zero creative thought. I just program for their framework. FUCK THEIR FRAMEWORK.

I remember when I was interviewing for my current job I did an interview at a children's hospital where they made programs for people doing research. There was a lot of freedom but I didn't get the job. Maybe I should reapply there? What other jobs are there that can get me out of this?

31 comments

9 u/manapot 30 Apr 2016 00:39

This is one of the reasons I only take positions in small companies. Your opinion carries weight. You are paid to contribute and make decisions (like design), not to just code what you are handed.

2 u/Gargilius 30 Apr 2016 01:12

...that's how I found happiness too; however, OP has to realize that this is not really an option for a junior / entry level position (5 years experience is still that); small companies expect a new hire to hit the ground running, they can't afford much hand holding.

Another contributor mentioned participating in some open source project : that's an excellent suggestion; that and some years of experience will open a lot of doors.

6 u/CrispyKat 29 Apr 2016 23:43

How long have you been a professional programmer?

3 u/JesusChrist2 [OP] 29 Apr 2016 23:48

5 years

9 u/CrispyKat 29 Apr 2016 23:55

Copied from my response above...

Well, I ask because I felt the same way when I was first starting out. It took me 6 years until I became a senior developer and the decision maker. I worked hard to gain that position and quickly realized that the junior developers under me, felt the same way I did. LOL

I think most programmers feel like creators and don't want to just follow someone elses plan, they want to design the plan. However, it takes time and hard work to earn the trust to be the man.

Dude, I HATE working for other people. Even being a senior developer now, it's not like you can do whatever you want. You now answer to NON PROGRAMMERS. An even worse fate, I can assure you. However, you need to make it known that you are looking for a path forward career wise. If one will never be available, maybe it's time to move on. Apply for a senior developer position somewhere else.

3 u/JesusChrist2 [OP] 30 Apr 2016 00:49

That's good advice. I'll let them know. But I don't see things changing there so I am definitely looking for something different.

2 u/CrispyKat 30 Apr 2016 00:59

Do you have side projects that you work on? Things you have created entirely on your own that you can show off?

1 u/JesusChrist2 [OP] 30 Apr 2016 01:16

I've just been studying math. I'm in love with ML but it's such a steep hill that no fruits can be shown for a long time. I'm very interested in Web Components because of their ability to replace frameworks.

UP NEXT a lean high performance framework for web components.... .js

5 u/GoddammitMrNoodle 30 Apr 2016 00:22

I was a database programmer for most of my programming career. Within the confines of the development tools it was a fantastically creative and rewarding activity. Sitting with the client to determine what they need (which is usually different to what they ask for) and then coming up with a solution that not only doesn't break existing data relationships but also is expandable so that when they revisit the project down the road (and they always do) you can change the functionality to what they now perceive the needs to be.

I didn't always do it right but we had enough successes that I can look back with pride and a sense of real accomplishment.

Of course the down side to writing DB queries, updates, and reporting is that it can be mind numbingly repeatative and boring. Oh boy, another AR report but this time with butterflies in the margins Please Gawd Kill Me Now. So yeah, if you're on the receiving end of the development team then it can be one of the lower circles of hell.

I regularly worked with web guys and I always thought the designers were able to be creative, but the HTML side seemed like a grind especially dealing with the difference between browsers.

4 u/tame 30 Apr 2016 01:50

The creative stuff you enjoy would fall more under 'business analysis' and 'software engineering' than 'programming'.

4 u/123456 30 Apr 2016 03:44

Do your own shit. You'll have maximum creativity. But guess what? It's a huge pain in the ass.

3 u/J_Darnley 30 Apr 2016 01:57

> web developer

Well, there's your problem. Get out of your browser.

2 u/zquad 30 Apr 2016 00:28

Work you way gaining credibility and become a consultant.

1 u/roznak 04 May 2016 18:51

Consultants are in no way "credible". Their only credibility comes that they cost more and therefor must be better than you own low paid developers from managers point of view.

The main rules with managers:

He talks hibrisch I don't understand: Therefore he must be good.
He is 4 times more expensive than my current developers: Therefore he must be good.
He is better dressed than my current developers: Therefore he must be good.
He changed company every 3 months: Therefore he must be good.
His project took 4 times as long with tens of thousand of bugs popping up and 3 of our developers ended up in a burn out. Luckily we had him in our team that saved the day.

0 u/zquad 04 May 2016 23:26

All true... but he got paid.

2 u/whisky_cat 30 Apr 2016 00:44

Prove you can build a framework or technology stack that is just as useful. This would re-position your value and confidence if you're able to do so... or just take your skill to lower hanging fruit in the web world (i.e. less money).

I'm in charge of large frontend stacks, it's very, very difficult to get quality code to publish for large clients who depend on virtually perfect launches. That said, there's a bunch of web frameworks I hate, but the ones I choose to use have allowed our Company to host enterprise applications in a stable fashion, for many years.

The technology changes fast, so you have all the time & opportunity to propose alternatives to your barriers, or learn to master that setup and become a priceless contractor.

edit: And yes I've been in the pits, I've worked on half-a-dozen stacks and most are not ideal. I make my contributions shine and furthered my career by breaking patterns I hated. I would never get hired for a big company, I work in small software.

0 u/roznak 04 May 2016 18:53

Prove you can build a framework or technology stack that is just as useful.

Definitely this! When you can build frameworks from scratch that are reusable and are actually functional, then you have proven yourself.

1 u/carbanara 30 Apr 2016 04:19

Machine control

1 u/GumbyTM 30 Apr 2016 14:00

Creativity at work is a bit of an oxymoron for the average joe.

Your manager probably doesn't have the time, resources or patience to nourish a bunch of budding artisans.

He cares about goals deadlines and numbers. If you want to have your ideas accepted you have to fight for them.

Find an incremental change that you can prove is a better way. By prove I mean ROI numbers and quantifiable goals that align with business needs. (You have to make them want your idea and the best way to do that is to find ways to get them to think it's their idea.) Establish a track record of good ideas, then people will listen.

Not before.

You can die on the cross of idealism or succeed in the real world the choice is always yours.

Good luck.

1 u/littlemikemac 30 Apr 2016 17:51

Code Monkey want new job.

1 u/residentbrownguy 30 Apr 2016 20:48

Not happening in Business Intelligence, I can tell you that much.

0 u/Loumedia 30 Apr 2016 21:55

God, you people are worthless.

Yeah, there is some job where some idiot is going to pay you to realize YOUR dream. That makes sense.

Do what everyone else does, work is work and growth is growth. Your employment isn't going to free your soul, you fool!

0 u/fuck_communism 30 Apr 2016 23:47

The truth? All entry level jobs suck, no matter what the profession. Its' called "paying your dues." Keep at it, keep your eyes open for opportunity, and in a few years you'll be a senior developer with a whole new set of job related issues to bitch about.

0 u/roznak 04 May 2016 18:27

The flow in your logic is assuming that the only way to program is during company hours. The moment I learn the most is after my company hours because it is fun.