It took me more than a year of self-taught study before I got a freelance gig.
I think that's rather encouraging. In what other line of work can you learn for a year and then start at an entry-level position that lets you work from home? Programming isn't a get rich quick thing, but with hard work and skill, it can get you places. That's opportunity.
This is much better. Atwood concedes that a little bit of coding knowledge is important just as understanding basic plumbing issues are important.
However my opinion is that coding is just a tool like an arc welder, wood lathe, or propane torch. There is no point in teaching someone how to use them if they have no real interest in having a passion for using them. They should know they exist for a certain class of problem, but that's it. Then if they decide that they want to be able to build furniture then let them dive in.
the more people who learn the less valuable the skill is a bit of a downside to everyone learning to code. When software engineers are outbid by the cheaper "taught at home" programmer who can competently code the day to day apps while being paid a minimum wage we will see a decline in value placed on the work.
You might as well say "Don't bother learning math, you probably won't be a mathematician". I've taught myself a little code and it has made my life a little easier. Maybe if I had been taught at a younger age I would be a coder right now. I just can't agree with this article
Stupid article. Even if you don't plan to get a programming job, it is still worth knowing some code. For example if you want to be automate some batch job or you need a quick n dirty custom program for whatever reason. Besides learning to code will actually improve your logical thinking skills. IOW there are plenty of reason to know how to code besides seeking a programming job. You don't need to go to any "bootcamp" either .. it is very possible to learn yourself
Why does /u/roznak keep posting so much anti-programming stuff in this sub all the time? It is hardly relevant to /v/programming and I have gotten to the point where I just about automatically downvote it.
Hey, goy. Programming is hard! Why bother wasting your mind doing this hard stuff that isn't fun?! What are you, a nerd or something? Leave it to professionals! You can trust us! Just go drink, have fun, watch TV. Don't worry about the code in your computer; we'll take care of it for you.
I wouldn't say it's stupid. IMHO the important bit is that people need to become better problem solvers. This means understanding the problem and knowing which tool to use, but this also means that learning new tools effectively is just as important. Besides you know the saying, when all you know is how to hammer then everything is a nail.
Anyway, I kind of agree with the author, but I think they needed more stress on the understanding the problem part.
Why does /u/roznak keep posting so much anti-programming stuff in this sub all the time?
Because I see people entering things field that are not happy being a developer. But they are trapped there is no going back. Someone has to counter the "hype". This "hype" is drawing the wrong kind of people into the developers world. People that should never been there in the first place. They will create bad code, upset all other developers and become depressed themselves.
You don't need to go to any "bootcamp" either .. it is very possible to learn yourself
But this is completely different! These are the type of people that does fit into becoming a developer. Natural curiosity.
Also good developers are not going to be turned away from my negative posting. Good developers will say "Fuck you I will continue learning it no matter what you say."
Besides learning to code will actually improve your logical thinking skills.
I have news for you, except for tiny programs, there is no logic in the developers world. If you rely on logic, your programs will suck, because all the libraries out there are full of design flaws, full of bugs, and designed by complete idiots. "Creativity" to bypass the flaws and create solid solutions is more important that logical thinking.
Despite advances in equal opportunity, if you’re an underrepresented minority, you’re going to have to be twice as good as everyone else. And that’s simply to demonstrate competence.
Lost a lot of credibility with that line. My experience with minority hires is exactly the opposite. They are hired without proper credentials to boost diversity numbers and can't be fired for any amount of incompetence.
I think we need basic understanding of programming and technology. Encryption isn't bad. Programs are easily manipulated in the hands of the wrong people. Etc.
Everyone needs a good foundation of how technology works, at least; even if it isn't programming (though I'd argue they should at least understand the logic behind code).
The way everything works, today, not knowing how to at least configure security settings on one's hardware/software is inexcusable. Especially if your job depends on it (*cough*Hillary Clinton*cough *).
While many coding bootcamps are legitimate and care for their pupils, an even greater number are run by modern snake-oil salespeople tapping into the average American’s desperation.
I have seen this in the photography too. SCAM artist trying to convince random people in the street that they can become models if they just pay them $600 for a photoshoot that they can use to go to a modeling bureau. The scam is that these girls pay big money for bad pictures and worse of all they would never have any chance in the modeling industry in the first place.
I see this SCAM now happening in the programming world. You will pay a lot of money to learn something that you will never be successful in. Programming is not for everyone. If it is not build into your very DNA, then you are going to hate being a developer. Being a programmer means 365/24/7 of none-stop learning. If you halt your learning skills for a few months then you become obsolete.
Right now when I am writing on voat I am also busy learning new coding skills. Becoming a coder means that you never will have a normal life.
I would no more urge everyone to learn to program than I would urge everyone to learn to plumb.
That is a fantastic sentence. Great point all around. With the way people are if you teach them to plumb, you will quickly have people trying to cut the crust off their sammiches with a plunger.
Something else, the key to become a good developer is not the course your got but the speed you can throw away old knowledge and relearn new knowledge within 1 month or less.
Just an example I had to learn Basica, USCD Pascal, Borland Pascal, Borland C++, Borland Pascal for Windows, Delphi, Visual C++ (MFC), Java, C# (Winforms, WPF, WCF, Services, LINQ, ASYNC,... ), HTML, Javascript, now Python.
After a while it's just syntax. If you need to script/alter code on something, in a language you've never used, it's easy to do as long as you have a browser tab open with some references. You learn from there.
I liken it to learning how to play the guitar by learning pre-existing songs. For example, I learnt PHP/MySQL by starting my own PhpBB forum fucking years ago.
29 comments
23 u/3dk 16 May 2016 00:50
The article is a rip-off.
Here's the original: http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/
Also:
I think that's rather encouraging. In what other line of work can you learn for a year and then start at an entry-level position that lets you work from home? Programming isn't a get rich quick thing, but with hard work and skill, it can get you places. That's opportunity.
10 u/qzx 16 May 2016 01:15
Prostitution. Drugs. Clairvoyant. Community Organizer.
0 u/FormerlyKnownAsGkar 16 May 2016 18:57
I think inviting Johns to your house would be kind of like using your own car to patrol as a cop...
4 u/el_cordoba 16 May 2016 01:48
This is much better. Atwood concedes that a little bit of coding knowledge is important just as understanding basic plumbing issues are important.
However my opinion is that coding is just a tool like an arc welder, wood lathe, or propane torch. There is no point in teaching someone how to use them if they have no real interest in having a passion for using them. They should know they exist for a certain class of problem, but that's it. Then if they decide that they want to be able to build furniture then let them dive in.
0 u/Psylent 16 May 2016 02:15
the more people who learn the less valuable the skill is a bit of a downside to everyone learning to code. When software engineers are outbid by the cheaper "taught at home" programmer who can competently code the day to day apps while being paid a minimum wage we will see a decline in value placed on the work.
1 u/parrygrin 16 May 2016 06:05
Many thanks for posting the original article.
1 u/brutal_maths 18 May 2016 11:58
I think Al Sweigart's response is the best. http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2014/09/30/no-seriously-why-should-i-learn-to-code/
12 u/Bradox 16 May 2016 02:56
You might as well say "Don't bother learning math, you probably won't be a mathematician". I've taught myself a little code and it has made my life a little easier. Maybe if I had been taught at a younger age I would be a coder right now. I just can't agree with this article
8 u/weezkitty 15 May 2016 23:33
Stupid article. Even if you don't plan to get a programming job, it is still worth knowing some code. For example if you want to be automate some batch job or you need a quick n dirty custom program for whatever reason. Besides learning to code will actually improve your logical thinking skills. IOW there are plenty of reason to know how to code besides seeking a programming job. You don't need to go to any "bootcamp" either .. it is very possible to learn yourself
Why does /u/roznak keep posting so much anti-programming stuff in this sub all the time? It is hardly relevant to /v/programming and I have gotten to the point where I just about automatically downvote it.
6 u/TheTrigger 16 May 2016 01:25
Hey, goy. Programming is hard! Why bother wasting your mind doing this hard stuff that isn't fun?! What are you, a nerd or something? Leave it to professionals! You can trust us! Just go drink, have fun, watch TV. Don't worry about the code in your computer; we'll take care of it for you.
1 u/el_cordoba 16 May 2016 01:39
I wouldn't say it's stupid. IMHO the important bit is that people need to become better problem solvers. This means understanding the problem and knowing which tool to use, but this also means that learning new tools effectively is just as important. Besides you know the saying, when all you know is how to hammer then everything is a nail.
Anyway, I kind of agree with the author, but I think they needed more stress on the understanding the problem part.
Edit: I hate my phone
1 u/roznak [OP] 16 May 2016 01:43
Because I see people entering things field that are not happy being a developer. But they are trapped there is no going back. Someone has to counter the "hype". This "hype" is drawing the wrong kind of people into the developers world. People that should never been there in the first place. They will create bad code, upset all other developers and become depressed themselves.
But this is completely different! These are the type of people that does fit into becoming a developer. Natural curiosity.
Also good developers are not going to be turned away from my negative posting. Good developers will say "Fuck you I will continue learning it no matter what you say."
I have news for you, except for tiny programs, there is no logic in the developers world. If you rely on logic, your programs will suck, because all the libraries out there are full of design flaws, full of bugs, and designed by complete idiots. "Creativity" to bypass the flaws and create solid solutions is more important that logical thinking.
7 u/cat-facts 16 May 2016 07:06
Lost a lot of credibility with that line. My experience with minority hires is exactly the opposite. They are hired without proper credentials to boost diversity numbers and can't be fired for any amount of incompetence.
2 u/Brashtacks 16 May 2016 20:59
I don't always log in, but when I do, it is to upgoat a comment such as yours.
5 u/Codewow 15 May 2016 23:30
I think we need basic understanding of programming and technology. Encryption isn't bad. Programs are easily manipulated in the hands of the wrong people. Etc.
1 u/TheTrigger 16 May 2016 01:21
Everyone needs a good foundation of how technology works, at least; even if it isn't programming (though I'd argue they should at least understand the logic behind code).
The way everything works, today, not knowing how to at least configure security settings on one's hardware/software is inexcusable. Especially if your job depends on it (*cough*Hillary Clinton*cough *).
1 u/roznak [OP] 15 May 2016 22:39
I have seen this in the photography too. SCAM artist trying to convince random people in the street that they can become models if they just pay them $600 for a photoshoot that they can use to go to a modeling bureau. The scam is that these girls pay big money for bad pictures and worse of all they would never have any chance in the modeling industry in the first place.
I see this SCAM now happening in the programming world. You will pay a lot of money to learn something that you will never be successful in. Programming is not for everyone. If it is not build into your very DNA, then you are going to hate being a developer. Being a programmer means 365/24/7 of none-stop learning. If you halt your learning skills for a few months then you become obsolete.
Right now when I am writing on voat I am also busy learning new coding skills. Becoming a coder means that you never will have a normal life.
1 u/Adminstrater 16 May 2016 09:30
Learning Programming is a lesson in Logic and Troubleshooting. In essence, it teaches you patience and problem solving skills.
It's like Math. You don't use it at every job, but the lessons and practices that Math class teaches you are used in everyday life.
1 u/7even6ix2wo 16 May 2016 16:23
That is a fantastic sentence. Great point all around. With the way people are if you teach them to plumb, you will quickly have people trying to cut the crust off their sammiches with a plunger.
1 u/ginx2666 16 May 2016 19:41
0 u/roznak [OP] 15 May 2016 22:48
Something else, the key to become a good developer is not the course your got but the speed you can throw away old knowledge and relearn new knowledge within 1 month or less.
Just an example I had to learn Basica, USCD Pascal, Borland Pascal, Borland C++, Borland Pascal for Windows, Delphi, Visual C++ (MFC), Java, C# (Winforms, WPF, WCF, Services, LINQ, ASYNC,... ), HTML, Javascript, now Python.
1 u/TheTrigger 16 May 2016 01:34
After a while it's just syntax. If you need to script/alter code on something, in a language you've never used, it's easy to do as long as you have a browser tab open with some references. You learn from there.
I liken it to learning how to play the guitar by learning pre-existing songs. For example, I learnt PHP/MySQL by starting my own PhpBB forum fucking years ago.
0 u/Tydude 16 May 2016 13:17
Unless it's applying to bad habits that's never really a good combination of words.
0 u/Brashtacks 16 May 2016 21:02
Between the lines: "This is not the career you are looking for, move along", says the 23 year old as he speeds by in his Tesla.
0 u/roznak [OP] 16 May 2016 21:08
At the age of 30 he will be sitting home with a burn out.
0 u/Brashtacks 20 Jun 2016 18:38
By "burn out" you mean well used 20 y/o stripper.
0 u/potterhere 24 May 2016 14:04
Article misses the point. "learn to code" movements don't teach people how to code and get a job. They teach how to think and solve problems.