the problem with stuff like this is that it creates a demand for people who will do as instructed. want to watch an american firm that pays decent move to india? just have enough of its US employees refuse to do the ordered tasks on moral principle. i can see why someone might not write straight up illegal code, but unethical code is 1) subjective and 2) strategic. sometimes some unethical code is simply a legal loophole to get around an unethical law. sometimes an unethical code is unethical to person A but not to more reasonable person B.
so i am going to call bullshit on this whole article. will businesses do unethical things? yes they will. but you know who is really at fault? their fucking customers. YOU need to vote with your money, and YOU need to be a customer of ethical businesses. what you purchase matters.
Major banks are unethical collusionary thieving anti-American organizations, from your logic it is the customers who are at faults?, your thinking is obviously not rational or sane?!$$$$$.
actually it still is the customers at fault, and so am i for being a customer of one of the big 5. i really need to go transfer to a local credit union.
as for the fed, well we can't do much about that. but you can invest in bitcoin and the like to take monetary power out of their hands. as for unethical collusion. consider this, in a capitalist world of competition if business A cheats to cut a bigger profit than business B, than it can drive business B out of the market. over time this creates business survival selection pressure for unethical businesses. this all relies on rules keeping the system rigged or it relies on free trade with competition on uneven playing fields.
so can you get rid of unethical business altogether? nope, not in this world you can't. but you can draw your own moral lines and support this business and not that business.
keep in mind the fundamental problem of subjective morality and ethics. what is unethical to person A is not unethical to person B.
Your drinking cannibal liberal koolaid if you are convinced that morality and ethics are subjective, that is a statement that a terrorist would make to defend themselves?!$$$$$.
lol terrorist, like those people who keep on terrorizing the health at every size supporters? the term terrorism has been so loosely applied to everything in the last few years that it is losing its meaning. if posting words on a screen is your idea of terrorism than sure, i am a terrorist. but everybody on this site is just as guilty as me, including you.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, what you are suggesting is that some of us have been forced into unethical and immoral duties as our countries ideology has been suckered into supporting the morals and ethics of the lowest common denominator, cannibals, this is great for rogue politicians and foreign corporate invaders..... we can do better than this, we can improve?!$$$$$.
the problem you are noticing stems from the size of the population. peaceful societies always depend on the lowest common denominator. going above the common denominator ensures that some people in that society are enemies of other members of that society. what is more important, peace, or some person's moral opinion?
What do you think would happen to the Japanese culture, if sjws got ahold of their media and brought in sub-Saharan cannibals as examples of ethics and morals.... the ethics and morals you have been programmed to accept are substandard, not up to par, and a reason to minimize and displace you with anyone other than another European American male, because now incompetent standards are somehow acceptable, you could probably be replaced with a pet rock or a cockroach or a bedbug if you lower your standards and expectations enough..... this is why mind control drugs like fluoride are heavily used successfully, you are an accepting of anything example$$$$$.
funny you pick japanese culture, i like a lot of their morals and principles. a lot of what we would consider to be "immoral" they would consider to be personal matters. they have more social acceptance of liberty, but it is expected to be kept in quiet while putting up a polite public persona. in this manner they have both respect for each other and civility while still allowing for a wide variety of individual preferences. but they are caving to US and EU trade cannibals which are trying to crush their liberty.
japan will resist SJW culture, because it attacks public persona and personal liberty. it would be detrimental to their work ethic. work hard, play hard. besides the women there have no desire to work as hard as the men do.
Do you think judges who commit collusionary fraudulent agreements with attorneys know what they are doing?!$$$$$$. Do you think dentists know that fluoride is toxic and causes glandular disorders, autism, cancers?!$$$$$.
They should have had it a long time ago. The biggest problem in IT is how many weasely little scumbags will take a paycheck for doing something sleazy that a lot of other people have turned down.
Wait scratch that. This is the problem with our whole species. A great many humans are willing to forego moral concerns for financial gain. Or is it a problem of society emphasizing and encouraging financial gain at all costs? Or both?
Hey what a coincidence, I just bid on a job for a gambling web site and found out (big surprise) that the outcome of the game is entirely rigged... but only if the user decides to play for real money. Payment will be in bitcoin.
hangs head in shame
This whole thing is silly bullshit, honestly. Bill Sourour was a little pansy for writing the article BI is talking about. I won't argue that ethical dilemmas in programming don't exist, but Sourour's wasn't real. Basically this comes down to what everyone else here is saying; if the programmer doesn't write the code, the company will find someone else who does. It's not an ethical dilemma to do your fucking job (in the case of Sourour).
38 comments
12 u/dottel 21 Nov 2016 13:15
This seems overly dramatic to me.
4 u/the-cats-nipples 21 Nov 2016 13:43
Yes, where is this huge discussion taking place?
9 u/DukeofAnarchy 21 Nov 2016 19:38
It's a propaganda piece promoting scummy cocksucker Robert Martin and his push for government regulation and compulsory licensing of programmers.
6 u/greycloud 21 Nov 2016 13:36
the problem with stuff like this is that it creates a demand for people who will do as instructed. want to watch an american firm that pays decent move to india? just have enough of its US employees refuse to do the ordered tasks on moral principle. i can see why someone might not write straight up illegal code, but unethical code is 1) subjective and 2) strategic. sometimes some unethical code is simply a legal loophole to get around an unethical law. sometimes an unethical code is unethical to person A but not to more reasonable person B.
so i am going to call bullshit on this whole article. will businesses do unethical things? yes they will. but you know who is really at fault? their fucking customers. YOU need to vote with your money, and YOU need to be a customer of ethical businesses. what you purchase matters.
1 u/BAppreciAting 21 Nov 2016 15:45
Major banks are unethical collusionary thieving anti-American organizations, from your logic it is the customers who are at faults?, your thinking is obviously not rational or sane?!$$$$$.
1 u/greycloud 21 Nov 2016 15:49
actually it still is the customers at fault, and so am i for being a customer of one of the big 5. i really need to go transfer to a local credit union.
as for the fed, well we can't do much about that. but you can invest in bitcoin and the like to take monetary power out of their hands. as for unethical collusion. consider this, in a capitalist world of competition if business A cheats to cut a bigger profit than business B, than it can drive business B out of the market. over time this creates business survival selection pressure for unethical businesses. this all relies on rules keeping the system rigged or it relies on free trade with competition on uneven playing fields.
so can you get rid of unethical business altogether? nope, not in this world you can't. but you can draw your own moral lines and support this business and not that business.
keep in mind the fundamental problem of subjective morality and ethics. what is unethical to person A is not unethical to person B.
0 u/BAppreciAting 21 Nov 2016 16:01
Your drinking cannibal liberal koolaid if you are convinced that morality and ethics are subjective, that is a statement that a terrorist would make to defend themselves?!$$$$$.
0 u/greycloud 21 Nov 2016 16:07
lol terrorist, like those people who keep on terrorizing the health at every size supporters? the term terrorism has been so loosely applied to everything in the last few years that it is losing its meaning. if posting words on a screen is your idea of terrorism than sure, i am a terrorist. but everybody on this site is just as guilty as me, including you.
0 u/BAppreciAting 21 Nov 2016 16:18
I appreciate your enthusiasm, what you are suggesting is that some of us have been forced into unethical and immoral duties as our countries ideology has been suckered into supporting the morals and ethics of the lowest common denominator, cannibals, this is great for rogue politicians and foreign corporate invaders..... we can do better than this, we can improve?!$$$$$.
0 u/greycloud 21 Nov 2016 16:23
the problem you are noticing stems from the size of the population. peaceful societies always depend on the lowest common denominator. going above the common denominator ensures that some people in that society are enemies of other members of that society. what is more important, peace, or some person's moral opinion?
0 u/BAppreciAting 21 Nov 2016 16:35
What do you think would happen to the Japanese culture, if sjws got ahold of their media and brought in sub-Saharan cannibals as examples of ethics and morals.... the ethics and morals you have been programmed to accept are substandard, not up to par, and a reason to minimize and displace you with anyone other than another European American male, because now incompetent standards are somehow acceptable, you could probably be replaced with a pet rock or a cockroach or a bedbug if you lower your standards and expectations enough..... this is why mind control drugs like fluoride are heavily used successfully, you are an accepting of anything example$$$$$.
1 u/greycloud 21 Nov 2016 16:44
funny you pick japanese culture, i like a lot of their morals and principles. a lot of what we would consider to be "immoral" they would consider to be personal matters. they have more social acceptance of liberty, but it is expected to be kept in quiet while putting up a polite public persona. in this manner they have both respect for each other and civility while still allowing for a wide variety of individual preferences. but they are caving to US and EU trade cannibals which are trying to crush their liberty.
japan will resist SJW culture, because it attacks public persona and personal liberty. it would be detrimental to their work ethic. work hard, play hard. besides the women there have no desire to work as hard as the men do.
3 u/derram 21 Nov 2016 12:30
https://archive.is/KTlH4 :
'"Unfortunately, many of todayâ\x80\x99s software developers are self-taught or are learning through so-called 'coding bootcamps,'" says Sourour. '
'The focus is on pumping out people who can write code as fast as possible to satisfy a growing and insatiable market for coding skills," he adds. '
'But Martin pointed out, "The weird thing is, it was software developers who wrote that code. '
'Decades later, he still feels guilty about it, he told Business Insider. '
'He pointed out that "there are hints" that developers will increasingly face some real heat in the years to come. '
This has been an automated message.
1 u/hafen 21 Nov 2016 19:43
Thank you! The article seems to be taken down or something.
1 u/BottomLine 21 Nov 2016 13:26
Of course they knew. There are some real stupid codemonkeys out there, but the ones translating the requirements certainly knew what it was doing.
-2 u/BAppreciAting 21 Nov 2016 15:53
Do you think judges who commit collusionary fraudulent agreements with attorneys know what they are doing?!$$$$$$. Do you think dentists know that fluoride is toxic and causes glandular disorders, autism, cancers?!$$$$$.
1 u/dontforgetaboutevil 21 Nov 2016 16:54
They should have had it a long time ago. The biggest problem in IT is how many weasely little scumbags will take a paycheck for doing something sleazy that a lot of other people have turned down.
Wait scratch that. This is the problem with our whole species. A great many humans are willing to forego moral concerns for financial gain. Or is it a problem of society emphasizing and encouraging financial gain at all costs? Or both?
1 u/meowski 23 Nov 2016 14:19
Hey what a coincidence, I just bid on a job for a gambling web site and found out (big surprise) that the outcome of the game is entirely rigged... but only if the user decides to play for real money. Payment will be in bitcoin. hangs head in shame
0 u/jokersmild 21 Nov 2016 14:45
Fucking paywall.
0 u/thefloodcontrol 21 Nov 2016 23:25
Many groups have this "the world depends on us" attitude.
0 u/A_M_Swallow 21 Nov 2016 23:54
I am am member of the British Computer Society, which has a Code of Conduct. As a start US organisations can import it. BCS
0 u/0x33 26 Nov 2016 12:35
This whole thing is silly bullshit, honestly. Bill Sourour was a little pansy for writing the article BI is talking about. I won't argue that ethical dilemmas in programming don't exist, but Sourour's wasn't real. Basically this comes down to what everyone else here is saying; if the programmer doesn't write the code, the company will find someone else who does. It's not an ethical dilemma to do your fucking job (in the case of Sourour).
-3 u/AmaleksHairyAss 21 Nov 2016 18:05
Programmer's. Union.