Tech jobs not invaded by leftists?
1 30 Jan 2018 04:13 by u/onegin
I'm a bit disappointed as I've been eyeing up a new job and saw on their website that they have a whole diversity and inclusivity initiative, and even go so far as mentioning unconscious bias training for hiring managers (don't know if it is mandatory or not).
I'm fully prepared to stand up against this stuff if it becomes (or already is) absolutely ubiquitous in my field. But if there are some institutions not being overrun by social justice ideology I would rather work there, even if only because that would demonstrate to me that they have strong leadership and probably have a better all-around future.
Have any of ya'll been thinking along these lines? I get the feeling I'm probably not alone in this. I also get the feeling though that the hardest road is probably the "correct" one: if I really want to change the rules at a company I have to work hard enough that I can actually work my way into leadership, or-- failing that-- I could drum up enough support for a populist kind of revolt. The latter sounds kinda crazy but I think again I'm probably not the only one feeling this way. I think there are a lot of closeted conservatives in tech.
Maybe everyone's just waiting to see how Damore's lawsuit goes. If it doesn't go well we will really have a challenge laid out in front of us, I'd say.
38 comments
1 u/Silver_Tube 30 Jan 2018 14:57
Test automation in labview is pretty good, lots of hardware interaction, requires more engineering skill rather than IT
Anything safety critical, aviation, defense, medical devices. misra c, ada and the like.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 16:58
I actually think that a decent number of women programmers at certain companies these days might be doing their more substantive work from home, with "help" from their programmer boyfriends or husbands. Not that they are necessarily unqualified themselves, but it's just a logical strategy for a couple working in tech trying to maximize their combined income, since some companies will grant young women big salaries over-easily just to avoid discrimination stuff, and since, in many cases the dude is going to be the stronger programmer, and probably willing to work overtime (and it provides an arrangement where he she is willing to accept him playing video games all evening, because well at least he's also giving her round-the-clock office-hours!)
The hardware interaction jobs though-- with actual devices like airplane components, medical devices, etc... yeah you can do some work from home but it's not the same, and it's not generic IT skills like a lot of these web services companies are.
0 u/GOMAD_OR_GFYAD 30 Jan 2018 04:17
Start your own business
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 04:42
That's a fair suggestion. I'm really an academic at heart though so it would be a tough shift for me. I've worked mostly in research. I still believe in research to some extent but I think that research organizations are pretty vulnerable, because there's not a whole lot of testosterone in them, to put it bluntly.
0 u/GOMAD_OR_GFYAD 30 Jan 2018 05:21
I've always heard that those who cant do, teach. But I think it's more accurate to say that leaders who are too cowardly fo4 risky ventures, choose to lead classrooms where there isnt any risk.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 06:04
Yeah I agree with that sentiment to some extent. There are academics though that are geniuses (and it's especially clear when this is the case in technical fields) and drive the field forward immensely with their productivity. So it's not really fair to generalize always. But they are the 0.01%.
Research is a little different than teaching. I've encountered a lot of untalented and/or weak-willed people in research unfortunately, because it's a system that can be gamed pretty easily. But at the same time there are a minority who do really exceptional work. They too can drive the field forward for example by creating free software and things like that.
It's a real dilemma because on the one hand, governments funding research can produce a lot of value in the economy, but on the other hand, governments throwing at money at things tends to create giant inefficient parasitic bureaucracies that won't go away, and that harbor diversity candidates and the like.
0 u/MrBoneCrusher 01 Feb 2018 12:38
Some people, like me personally, are more interested in the technical side of things and despise the human side of things. Technical people aren't interested in leadership. Computers are logical and make sense - people don't and are petty and obnoxious.
0 u/GOMAD_OR_GFYAD 01 Feb 2018 21:38
Then start a business where all your clients are computers, and use only computers as your employees.
0 u/Firevine 30 Jan 2018 04:32
I'm looking to get into the field myself, and this has been a concern of mine. I'll probably just bite the bullet for a few years, then start my own business and not fuck around with "diversity" jack shit.
0 u/Kill-Commies 30 Jan 2018 05:26
https://imgoat.com/uploads/7c6a1e7ce5/46928.png
Something tells me the further down you go on the list the less SJW BS you will encounter.
I'm in the 95%+ range, Ive encountered zero sjw faggotry so far
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 05:49
Ha, nice. Yeah I actually thought about CNC programming at one time (that's at 93% on your list). Knew a guy who worked CNC.
0 u/Kill-Commies 30 Jan 2018 06:03
I'm actually a machinist myself, cnc and manual. Its a good skill to have especially if you invest some money in your own machine and take it up at home and incorporate it into your other hobbies. Seeing some of the stuff people are doing online with theirs is pretty inspiring.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 06:26
Oh cool. Yeah I wouldn't have thought of picking up a machine at home. Not sure what I could make... maybe some parts to refurbish a piano? Or maybe some custom eyeglass (plastic) frames?
0 u/captbrogers 30 Jan 2018 05:30
Find smaller companies. They can still have people that cause trouble, but it is a little easier to catch that in an interview. Ask to be seen by the whole group (you would work with) for 15 or 20 minutes to find out about everyone, because you want to be sure of that position being a good fit. Ask them to tell you about working at that company and themselves. Who does what and who works with whom. Pay attention to who sits where and who feeds off of whom (do people make jokes and involve each other, or is everyone tight-lipped with a stick up their butt?). Who constantly chimes in, how relevant is their comment/response, and how much did they actually say when answering your questions. Sometimes people can speak for a while without actually having anything to say. It will be a bit mentally exhausting when you do it the first few times but it can be a wealth of information.
I've sat in on a meeting or interview and spent half of my mental energy on taking mental notes of how people were sitting, it let me know who was really in charge and how everyone was feeling. I've seen meetings where a small team of programmers came in and everyone was hunched over and quiet, a giant red flag they were all mentally roughed up and needed a break.
People advertise their thoughts all the time amd don't realize it, if you are actively looking for the signs they are easy enough to pick up on. From these silent messages you can tell if the place will be worth your time.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 05:53
Are you talking about asking to have the whole group in the room at the same time to get a sense of the dynamics? That sounds like that would indeed be a wealth of information seeing the group dynamics. I'm just so used to going through the normal interview "loop" and not asking for anything special like that.
0 u/captbrogers 30 Jan 2018 06:31
Yes, the whole group at the same time.
Break that sheep (I hate using that term, but it fits) mindset. Think of yourself as an one-man company and you are interviewing potential partnerships. Keep that thought driving your actions, you are interviewing them just as much as they are interviewing you.
Probe for social dynamics, you can do it indirectly and subtly by having everyone in one room talking together. Ask what was the reason for choosing tools and processes, you just want to know why so you can get a better idea of how things work at the company. Inquire about how the company is hoping you can improve things, this sets you apart from code monkies.
0 u/Gargilius 05 Feb 2018 23:29
To add to that argument: smaller companies simply don't have the resources to support the sjw parasite types, as everybody must pull their own weight; moreover, when you get in early, you have a better shot at steering the company in the right direction as it grows...
Though, don't count on the last point too much - parasites flock to any place that becomes successful, you might have to jump ship as it happens; you'll basically be jumping ship in the opposite direction as sjw parasites do - you'll move from growing successful companies to growing successful companies, as the sjw move from formerly successful companies they ruined to soon to be ruined newly successful companies... but hey, you might be able to retire before you grow tired of this game... :-)
0 u/swastikawaii 07 Feb 2018 06:15
I can second working for small companies. More chance of a good job if you can avoid Silicon Valley and/or California altogether.
0 u/CowboyXero 30 Jan 2018 06:49
I would recommend just going into ethical hacking. The downside to black hat shit is that, while fun, it won't get you paid and all the truly highly skilled are in the ethical business. They're paid...read that? PAID to find exploits and patch them. That's more of a merit-based thing and not something that you can "I'm a (insert color) differently gendered person so I get to call the shots and if not YOU"RE ALL RACISTS REEEEE!" your way to the top.
0 u/KikeFree 30 Jan 2018 07:58
Black hats do indeed get paid, but some end up in prison, some have to be careful where they travel, and some work behind the shield of a state.
Companies survive mostly from sales ability leading to cash flow, not actual performance. Plenty of so called white hat hacker companies just hire pajeets to run scripts, and people are fine with that because it was just a "cover your ass" step anyway, there is no actual desire to have security problems found except for the most egregious. Plenty of room for SJWs.
0 u/therealkrispy 30 Jan 2018 08:42
Damore's lawsuit or not, let's see how the Liberals like it when my startup hires with a bias towards conservatives, especially veterans, and refuses to use the visa program. And none of their shitty businesses will have any government contracts, because I'll provide any product we make to the government at cost. The entire premise of my business is to compete as aggressively as possible. And if I had a dollar for every idea I plan on bringing to market, I'd have starting capital.
Yeah, that's probably hard to believe, but I'm pretty confident that my first few projects are 'decacorn' (as in $10B pre IPO, not that I have any intentions of going public) material on their own.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 14:59
I'll watch for your AMA's. I've been fairly early in following the various censorship driven exoduses in social media and am always willing to try something new.
0 u/therealkrispy 30 Jan 2018 22:24
I wanna be clear that Voat wouldn't exactly be something I want to destroy, and if my product affects their usership, I plan on reaching out to Putt and helping him move 100% of Voat's data over, right down to every buried comment and every shitpost. I like this place, I just don't see it as sustainable. Voat exists as a far right haven from the far left nonsense of Reddit. My service will allow people to echo chamber themselves if they see fit, but it'll also have common ground areas where arguments get insane and there are no moderators. The idea is to make the internet lawless again.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 23:56
No mods sounds nice for having a non-echo-chamber space. Would you run into problems with people posting illegal content if it were unmoderated?
0 u/therealkrispy 31 Jan 2018 04:48
Not if it's all P2P, and the underlying tech gives people initial anonymity.
0 u/onegin [OP] 31 Jan 2018 05:51
Cool man, looking forward to any updates. Do you have a repo or gab or something that we can follow? Gitlab seems less of SJW sellouts than github, and I really like their all-in-one CI, if you're looking for a place to host a repo.
0 u/therealkrispy 31 Jan 2018 16:55
The short answer is 'not yet.'
The long answer is that if I actually published it, I'd be publishing a half baked backend that, frankly, is a project unto itself. Moreover, I'm not the only one working on that part of it, and the consensus is that any shithead employee of Google or Facebook that stumbles on it would almost immediately pass it up the chain, and our work would be picked apart and rewritten and pumped full of surveillance software and they'd probably have the balls to sue us, claiming they did it first.
Then there's the fact that other projects I'm building use much of the same tech, including a repo with a veritable assload of features. And so, when the backend is somewhat functional, my repo will be practically stable, and the still unfinished other projects, including a forum platform, will be dumped on the repo.
Of course, if we go through with the sweeping changes we might make to the backend, it could actually move the other projects up, and the repo could theoretically be done less than a year from now, so it's really dependent on if we decide to bin ~6,000 man-hours of work.
EDIT: Oh, and these answers here are, I think, a pretty good testament to how hardcore I'll be about my AMAs.
0 u/MrKequc 30 Jan 2018 11:58
A good gauge for this is to use the part of the interview where they ask why I want to work for the company, to praise them on this very issue. Regardless of how much I know about how the company run (because often they hide it). I'll bring up the problem, talk about how I have more faith in their leadership than other companies. Talk about how it's an advantage in the industry to hire people based on merit and skill.
If they are a bunch of SJWs I don't want to work for they won't hire me. If they are a company that knows what I'm talking about it communicates to them that I think I fit.
0 u/onegin [OP] 30 Jan 2018 14:54
I'll have to see if I can find my own way of bringing it up.
So in your experience then there have been some places that don't respond negatively? I live on the west coast and so far everyone I've talked to has been really guarded and seemingly scared of wrongthink.
0 u/MrKequc 31 Jan 2018 00:33
You need to apply to more companies. Your skills are noticeable, and if not then perhaps you have to work your way up. Otherwise, finding companies that know and are worried about their success. You will find one.
0 u/J_Darnley 30 Jan 2018 23:57
I think if you stay away from websites and the programming involved on and behind them then I think you'll find fewer SJWs. Unsexy programming over SSH with just text is not visible and not attractive to those attention seekers. I would say that maybe you should just tolerate whatever SJW shit to get a job. I don't really know that much. I've been working less than a year as a programmer and took the first job offered. Nobody wants to hire an "old" 30 year old with no degree.
0 u/onegin [OP] 31 Jan 2018 01:06
I think you're right about the unsexy bit in general, but the place I'm looking at is quite far on the unsexy end of the spectrum, I'd say. The average employee age is like 45+. I don't want to say too much but basically it is government, or close to it. There's no stock options or sexy silicon valley campus or famous product or website behind it. Most of the younger guys are family men, basically. So I don't know what it is. I can't picture how it happens other than some crazy SJW showing up one day and basically demanding a job, "or else" they would cry racism to the press. If I do end up working there I'll try to find out the origin of it and how powerful they are or if it's strictly a token / theater thing.
No degree? Or just no CS degree? If the former I wish I had advice but I'd be guessing. One of those hackerrank type sites might help prove your ability to get you in the door. The "old" issue is kind of there even if you do have a degree. There are just so many places that would rather have young guys who are easy to manipulate into overwork. I've thought about going into some trade instead, where the technology isn't constantly changing. Or at least getting closer to hardware, where it's not like with web development where the tools are changing every damn day.
0 u/J_Darnley 31 Jan 2018 01:19
If people think about the places that SJW shit has blown up then "sexy" things are where they are. Google, Facebook, Twitter shit. Other website stuff. Dongle Gate was at some conference. Gamer Gate happened.
Thanks for the reply. No degree at all. I made poor choices. I should also have added that I am in Europe so there isn't quite the same culture as in the US. The way I put it to others is that a degree is how you bootstrap a career (to borrow a tech term).
0 u/MrBoneCrusher 01 Feb 2018 16:11
I have been disappointed by the direction programming has taken in these past 10 years. Especially current graduates. They care more about how many buzzwords they can fit into a solution and write an over-engineered mess crossing 4 languages running on top of 2 VMs with microservices and blah blah blah, when a single 20-line C program could solve it just fine. And they're so used to programming in languages that are so far removed from the actual CPU and talking to the OS that they barely understand how computers actually work these days.
I partly blame phones. Back when I was a kid we had actual computers and you had to know how to put stuff together and do a few things to actually get online. And programming and tweaking around with the technical settings was accessible and not hidden behind 10 different screens. Now kids just buy a phone and everything is done for them. Unless they're into PC gaming or something most kids these days probably wouldn't even know how to hook up a computer!
And of course CS is full of a bunch of betas, and with colleges requiring even STEM majors to take pathetic liberal art courses they eat this SJW shit up. Add in a bunch of diversity hires who shouldn't even be there but are anyway because they're dark skinned or a woman, even if you literally have to rewrite everything that they write.
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0 u/roznak 04 Feb 2018 15:52
It is only temporary, in 3-5 years from now all these "diverse" companies have gone bust and those that survives are the ones you want to be in.
Also, SJW's don't tend to stay long, since they have to work too hard and people will notice. So they change company before people are noticing it.