Even though this is satire I feel that stack overflow doesn't give you all of the answers. You still have to understand the structuring of programming and how to implement code and so forth. Stack overflow is more like a reference guide than a "solve my code" website.
Kind of, its just easier to use a search engine to find variations of what you're looking for rather than flip through a book that may only have one or two examples.
Agreed. Plus, on *nix, docs on non-GNU libs and funcs tend to be spotty in my experience. And GNU docs often contain more info than you could read in a week. Or three.
don't get me wrong, I still use stack, but it's more of a comparative tool.
I feel like if you don't have a solid understanding of the languages you use for your profession, and you haven't taken the time to learn the best practices, and you haven't built up a decent enough library of re-usable code, you probably aren't taking your profession too seriously.
Before I get crucified.... I am not saying the above for multi-purpose IT professionals. If you are admining/ doing desktop support/ writing code... by all means - paste that stolen code and get it up at all cost.
However, I am saying it for "programmers" and "web developers" who write code day in and day out. If you want to be taken seriously - you shouldn't be googling shit every five seconds. You should understand how your language/s work, their syntax, their best practices, how to document code written in it, how to understand other people's code, and have a nice cache of reusuable code.
As a Sr. Dev I agree... I usually Google Stack a few times a week, for either a reference gut check or obscure browser/JS bugs.
On that note you're describing all the skills that separate the top brass from the mid-level developers. I'm not knocking that, but I've seen some really shitty code/digital products shipped at the mid-level (including work of my own) and there is plenty of job demand for them right now.
Once you move past Stack as a crutch, it's about paying attention to the constantly changing web landscape. A lot of people don't have that energy but will remain gainfully employed.
Once you move past Stack as a crutch, it's about paying attention to the constantly changing web landscape. A lot of people don't have that energy but will remain gainfully employed.
Can you pleases tell me when this is going to stop? I used to love doing web development and then I realized that skill in web development is 99% based on looking at whatever Google is doing at the moment and copying it and won't pursue it as a career as I prefer to just do other things instead.
Can you pleases tell me when this is going to stop?
No idea. Maybe when Ecmascript finally hits a release that satisfies the programming community? That might be ES7, which might land late 2016 (last I checked). Maybe when the W3C stops releasing new specifications (no end in sight, the web still lacks in tons of features not implemented in browsers). Maybe when people are satisfied with the CSS specification (no end in sight).
As far as copying Google, obviously 99% is an exaggeration. When I'm on major websites there's more Backbone and old jQuery than angular, maybe some KnockoutJs and Ember here and there too. imo Yeoman wasn't interesting at all. Where I'm at, we're not copying Google's style guide(s), we're not using Yeoman, we're a deep Rails stack (Google favors Python & Java), we're not using Twitter's Bootstrap (which personally I dis-like), we're not doing a lot of things that would be copying the big Companies.
It's tough that the environment changes rapidly, but frontend job salaries have skyrocketed because of it. You could still be a static HTML/CSS template developer and make 40-50k... but if you can handle the changing JS environment and author good single page apps you can double those numbers. And I'm not saying that's an easy skill to achieve, it's hard work.
Well I make more doing what I'm doing now (Mix of a lot of things, mainly C/C++). I am a jQuery / PHP person as that was what I learned first. Web is more of a side project for me whenever I get some inspiration to do something I haven't done before. Looked a bit into node recently, it seems to do some cool stuff but seems to be too unwieldy for anything I'd want to do.
When I'm on major websites there's more Backbone and old jQuery than angular, maybe some KnockoutJs and Ember here and there too.
I'd assume this is because these sites that are already developed and integrating Angular into them would be a pain in the ass at this point. I'm under the impression that Angular was designed to "succeed" jQuery, Backbone, Knockout and a lot of other JS Frameworks (Mind you, my understanding of Angular is also a few years out of date). It would make sense for newer sites to integrate Angular.
we're a deep Rails stack (Google favors Python & Java)
Which would follow trends from a few years ago when it was Rubypalooza and everyone and their mother said to use Ruby (I honestly don't remember this, I've only read about it).
Couldn't agree more. If you're frequently getting useful information from Stackoverflow, you're only performing at a very basic student level since you probably lack the fundamentals. When you're working productively on something more niche and more advanced, you'll more frequently find Stackoverflow frustrating due to missing answers, incomplete answers, incorrect answers, and badly-researched questions.
The site definitely spoils you, at least to some extent.
On the other hand, fuck spending 7 hours finding some obscure workaround to some API bug or inconsistency when someone's already gone through that trouble and is willing to share their knowledge
Its the same for when I run into a bug on a computer. I end up finding a forum where someone has already gone through the same issue I'm having and found the solution. It just saves me time and effort to try and find the reason why something isn't working properly.
Using Google and Stackoverflow makes an efficient way of programming. I'd always use it whenever I need something to know right away, rather than spending my hours or even days of my time reading the documentation and blind guessing.
I mostly just love the defensive "real programmer" comments on the comments page of that article, though a few are even showing up here as well. Languages are little more than tools. Memorizing the nuance and breadth a language makes one no more a good developer no more than memorizing a dictionary makes one a good writer.
Sure, then when the author finishes writing their book they send it to their editor to get all the broken stuff fixed by someone that does learn it to great depth.
Edit: A little more accurately, to get all the broken parts notated with shorthand for the various kinds of problems and sent back for the author to fix as instructed.
I find that googling stack overflow allows my subconscious to work the problem. Over ninety percent of the time I return to the code and fix it with what I already knew.
And the other ninety percent of the time stack overflow really helps.
You worded that weird. Okay so you have a job that has 100 points and a time of 100 points. So 90 points in both time and job are used up. You now have 10 points of job and time. Are you saying that you use up 9 points of time to complete the last 10 points of job? If you worded it like "the last 10% of the job used up 90% of the remaining time" then mathematically I think I'd make more sense.
PRO: If you're picking up a new language and the documentation is unclear, SO is a good place to find a real world example posted.
CON: SO commenters are an interesting mix of helpful, talented folks and snarky neckbeards who either need the stick further up their ass, or removed entirely. Sometimes the place reminds me of a help-desk guy who is always a condescending dick to the people he helps.
46 comments
27 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 21 Jul 2015 00:00
Even though this is satire I feel that stack overflow doesn't give you all of the answers. You still have to understand the structuring of programming and how to implement code and so forth. Stack overflow is more like a reference guide than a "solve my code" website.
1 u/k3mist 21 Jul 2015 00:45
I agree. While stack is useful it typically is pretty general.
I only use stack when I'm being lazy. IE; If I have a common configuration issue and don't feel like reading the docs. Its just quicker to google it.
Most issues I run in to stack or google can't solve for me anyway.
There is a rule of thumb though. If you can't find the answer in 5 minutes or less, you need to solve the problem yourself.
19 u/aneryx 21 Jul 2015 00:52
Yeah it's more like Googling StackOverflow has replaced reading the manual.
2 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 21 Jul 2015 02:39
Kind of, its just easier to use a search engine to find variations of what you're looking for rather than flip through a book that may only have one or two examples.
0 u/aneryx 21 Jul 2015 14:30
I absolutely agree. I also use Google a lot to search the manual.
0 u/ddd 21 Jul 2015 01:21
usually the "do my homework" type submissions are quick to get closed by the people with reputation
0 u/Reddiggoat 21 Jul 2015 01:36
As a filthy high-end webcode peasant, this makes me smile.
0 u/coldacid 21 Jul 2015 02:47
That's when the solutions offered on SO are even correct.
0 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 21 Jul 2015 02:50
That too, hopefully that's where the community steps in and tries to correct it
0 u/the_spectre 21 Jul 2015 05:12
Agreed. Plus, on *nix, docs on non-GNU libs and funcs tend to be spotty in my experience. And GNU docs often contain more info than you could read in a week. Or three.
7 u/colostomySwag 21 Jul 2015 00:02
Time to update my resume.. I have six years of experience in Googling StackOverflow, with a Bachelor's Degree in GS.
5 u/AtheistComic 20 Jul 2015 23:50
IS IT APRIL FIRST??? lmao
3 u/iamnotanerd [OP] 20 Jul 2015 23:56
This would be a great april fools prank though.
3 u/firakasha 21 Jul 2015 00:49
I opened this in a new tab and it took me a second to locate it where it was hidden in with all the Stackoverflow tabs. +1
2 u/roznak 21 Jul 2015 00:18
When I google stackoverflow I most likely end up in obsolete pages from a long dead Windows XP solution.
2 u/Project2501 21 Jul 2015 01:30
Gold right there.
2 u/Frogolocalypse 21 Jul 2015 01:54
No love for Code Project?
0 u/topical_username 22 Jul 2015 00:25
Or Daniweb?
2 u/apocsnow 21 Jul 2015 03:47
maybe if you are a shitty/new web developer.
don't get me wrong, I still use stack, but it's more of a comparative tool.
I feel like if you don't have a solid understanding of the languages you use for your profession, and you haven't taken the time to learn the best practices, and you haven't built up a decent enough library of re-usable code, you probably aren't taking your profession too seriously.
Before I get crucified.... I am not saying the above for multi-purpose IT professionals. If you are admining/ doing desktop support/ writing code... by all means - paste that stolen code and get it up at all cost.
However, I am saying it for "programmers" and "web developers" who write code day in and day out. If you want to be taken seriously - you shouldn't be googling shit every five seconds. You should understand how your language/s work, their syntax, their best practices, how to document code written in it, how to understand other people's code, and have a nice cache of reusuable code.
1 u/whisky_cat 21 Jul 2015 04:19
As a Sr. Dev I agree... I usually Google Stack a few times a week, for either a reference gut check or obscure browser/JS bugs.
On that note you're describing all the skills that separate the top brass from the mid-level developers. I'm not knocking that, but I've seen some really shitty code/digital products shipped at the mid-level (including work of my own) and there is plenty of job demand for them right now.
Once you move past Stack as a crutch, it's about paying attention to the constantly changing web landscape. A lot of people don't have that energy but will remain gainfully employed.
0 u/SecretDragoon 21 Jul 2015 19:14
Can you pleases tell me when this is going to stop? I used to love doing web development and then I realized that skill in web development is 99% based on looking at whatever Google is doing at the moment and copying it and won't pursue it as a career as I prefer to just do other things instead.
1 u/whisky_cat 21 Jul 2015 20:08
No idea. Maybe when Ecmascript finally hits a release that satisfies the programming community? That might be ES7, which might land late 2016 (last I checked). Maybe when the W3C stops releasing new specifications (no end in sight, the web still lacks in tons of features not implemented in browsers). Maybe when people are satisfied with the CSS specification (no end in sight).
As far as copying Google, obviously 99% is an exaggeration. When I'm on major websites there's more Backbone and old jQuery than angular, maybe some KnockoutJs and Ember here and there too. imo Yeoman wasn't interesting at all. Where I'm at, we're not copying Google's style guide(s), we're not using Yeoman, we're a deep Rails stack (Google favors Python & Java), we're not using Twitter's Bootstrap (which personally I dis-like), we're not doing a lot of things that would be copying the big Companies.
It's tough that the environment changes rapidly, but frontend job salaries have skyrocketed because of it. You could still be a static HTML/CSS template developer and make 40-50k... but if you can handle the changing JS environment and author good single page apps you can double those numbers. And I'm not saying that's an easy skill to achieve, it's hard work.
1 u/SecretDragoon 21 Jul 2015 20:57
Well I make more doing what I'm doing now (Mix of a lot of things, mainly C/C++). I am a jQuery / PHP person as that was what I learned first. Web is more of a side project for me whenever I get some inspiration to do something I haven't done before. Looked a bit into node recently, it seems to do some cool stuff but seems to be too unwieldy for anything I'd want to do.
I'd assume this is because these sites that are already developed and integrating Angular into them would be a pain in the ass at this point. I'm under the impression that Angular was designed to "succeed" jQuery, Backbone, Knockout and a lot of other JS Frameworks (Mind you, my understanding of Angular is also a few years out of date). It would make sense for newer sites to integrate Angular.
Which would follow trends from a few years ago when it was Rubypalooza and everyone and their mother said to use Ruby (I honestly don't remember this, I've only read about it).
Can I get an amen here?
1 u/skeeto 22 Jul 2015 14:08
Couldn't agree more. If you're frequently getting useful information from Stackoverflow, you're only performing at a very basic student level since you probably lack the fundamentals. When you're working productively on something more niche and more advanced, you'll more frequently find Stackoverflow frustrating due to missing answers, incomplete answers, incorrect answers, and badly-researched questions.
1 u/2U 21 Jul 2015 01:28
The site definitely spoils you, at least to some extent.
On the other hand, fuck spending 7 hours finding some obscure workaround to some API bug or inconsistency when someone's already gone through that trouble and is willing to share their knowledge
1 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 21 Jul 2015 02:42
Its the same for when I run into a bug on a computer. I end up finding a forum where someone has already gone through the same issue I'm having and found the solution. It just saves me time and effort to try and find the reason why something isn't working properly.
1 u/superlunatic 21 Jul 2015 04:37
Using Google and Stackoverflow makes an efficient way of programming. I'd always use it whenever I need something to know right away, rather than spending my hours or even days of my time reading the documentation and blind guessing.
1 u/rwbj 21 Jul 2015 10:08
I mostly just love the defensive "real programmer" comments on the comments page of that article, though a few are even showing up here as well. Languages are little more than tools. Memorizing the nuance and breadth a language makes one no more a good developer no more than memorizing a dictionary makes one a good writer.
0 u/Balrogic 21 Jul 2015 22:38
Sure, then when the author finishes writing their book they send it to their editor to get all the broken stuff fixed by someone that does learn it to great depth.
Edit: A little more accurately, to get all the broken parts notated with shorthand for the various kinds of problems and sent back for the author to fix as instructed.
0 u/hairylarry 21 Jul 2015 01:49
I find that googling stack overflow allows my subconscious to work the problem. Over ninety percent of the time I return to the code and fix it with what I already knew.
And the other ninety percent of the time stack overflow really helps.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
1 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 21 Jul 2015 02:46
and
adds up to 180% :p
1 u/hairylarry 21 Jul 2015 22:22
It's a carpenter's maxim. The first 90% of the job takes 90% of the time. The last 10% of the job takes the other 90% of the time.
1 u/Balrogic 21 Jul 2015 23:02
Can confirm, felt exactly that way fixing a water damaged portion of flooring in my home last week.
0 u/a_Lonely_Hobo 22 Jul 2015 04:43
You worded that weird. Okay so you have a job that has 100 points and a time of 100 points. So 90 points in both time and job are used up. You now have 10 points of job and time. Are you saying that you use up 9 points of time to complete the last 10 points of job? If you worded it like "the last 10% of the job used up 90% of the remaining time" then mathematically I think I'd make more sense.
0 u/hairylarry 22 Jul 2015 05:07
It's a joke. The first 90% of the job takes 90% of the time. The last 10% of the job takes the other 90% of the time.
0 u/luddite 21 Jul 2015 04:14
My take on SO
PRO: If you're picking up a new language and the documentation is unclear, SO is a good place to find a real world example posted.
CON: SO commenters are an interesting mix of helpful, talented folks and snarky neckbeards who either need the stick further up their ass, or removed entirely. Sometimes the place reminds me of a help-desk guy who is always a condescending dick to the people he helps.
3 u/whisky_cat 21 Jul 2015 04:24
PRO: If you come across obscure bugs or the necessity of a function you don't know how to write, SO usually has that.
0 u/dogmatic 21 Jul 2015 04:16
developer.Mozilla.com for all my js structure and Dom reference needs.
I hate that the top 3 spots on any jsvascript topic are automatically f-ing w3schools.com.
0 u/SecretDragoon 21 Jul 2015 19:11
Well my job is 40% googling Stack Overflow, 40% reading documentation and 20% guesswork.
Oh yea and I do some programming.
0 u/InnocentBystander 21 Jul 2015 20:44
I can believe this. Pretty sure a couple programs I have written were entirely cut and pasted from there.
Ctrl-c ctrl-v are my most used programming keys.