I disagree and have my own thesis about this. I think that programming is cyclical. The first programming languages were procedural, mostly because people didn't know any better. Next came structured coding, which was a reaction to procedures. Then came object oriented, which itself was a reaction to structures. Then came Python, which was a reaction to the LISP style of the contemporary object languages like Java.
But why is Python so popular? I actually think that it's a pretty nifty little language, but feel that it's popularity is out of all proportion to it's actual utility. To be fair, it's support libraries are pretty banging. But again, why the excessive popularity?
And I think that the answer to this, lies in the fact that it's adherents don't really get languages like Java. Java to them, seems like a lot of work to do something simple, like achieve I/O and run a few algorithms on it. And perhaps it is. They want a language where they can come in, and make a couple of declarations, and write a modular program in like ten or fifteen lines that gets the job done.
And then it hit me - Python is merely the latest procedural language. It's a reaction against Object Oriented languages. I'm sure someone or other is going to bring up minute, pedantic reasons why Python isn't actually procedural, and I'm sure that when looked at across some domains it will seem not to be. Or it will have been constructed in such a way to solve the requirements of structured or object models, if only to eliminate objection and check off those particular boxes.
But when I try to code my own Python, the thing that I'm most reminded of is my time with Basic. I'm not creating structure or building objects, I'm simply importing libraries and then doing stuff. If I'm right, then programming is cyclical. The next step in the cycle would be a structured language that eliminates one or two of the major gripes about Python common among young coders, and then makes implementation of the major tasks of our day easier.
The next will be decentralized blockchain object oriented GPU assembly language. You don't even have to code. You just set up a node and then other people write the code for you.
I did some coding in Kotlin, an android app language. You can graphically pick an object, say a button, place it and change it's various characteristics in a side panel. Then you go into the actual code and set up what it does when pressed.
Sort of like what you described, but you are doing all the work.
That's good for a starter language but eventually you'll want to get others to write the code for you to be a real programmer. I'm joking of course. :D
I would take that, but see potential conspiracies everywhere now after what we have learned...
Similar ideas existed concerning BASIC and Pascal.
N. Wirth (the creator of Pascal) was very very influential... And more influential than you would think, he was editor of the Journal that published 'GOTO Considered Harmful' and edited the original title to the famous headline.
Some of what you’re predicting is already happening in Python. It now has optional syntax for static typing and forcing named arguments. These are tedious features of older languages that help reduce bugs and keep things in order when building larger systems.
JavaScript is going through something similar. It’s another easy to use language with automatic type casting, but it also becomes unwieldy when you build large programs with it. Now that JavaScript is being used to build large software programmers are seeing the problems with loose typing and TypeScript is becoming popular.
Maybe he's interested in mentoring streetshitters. Because of traitors like him, we have low IQ streetshitters from india sitting as CEOs in Google & Microsoft. Bet, there were white people who had far more capability for the CEO positions, but liberals like him in recruitment board picked cheap low IQ streetshitters from india, because of their "muh divershity"shitskin.
He is slitting his own neck. They will find a reason to hate him (primarily because he is a successful white guy in power), and they will hang his ass out to dry. Probably a #MeToo moment. No matter how much virtue signally or help he provides will protect him. In fact having close associations to people who think like that will put him at significant risk.
Don't worry, he recently had a spat with a landwhale over the standard library being worse than libraries from other people. The cunt suggested python should go the npm direction with having nothing out-of-the-box and having a big repository instead. He argued and eventually just up and left in a huff.
I read the rest. She’s essentially saying that the community should provide the standard library, not the core python language team. What she doesn’t understand is that the entire reason for Python’s popularity hinges on getting up and running quickly.
Her perspective is also from someone wanting to maintain support for Python 2-only libraries, but they’ve had a literal decade to upgrade.
Also, wanting to transform a language ecosystem into the clusterfuck that Nodejs has allowed to flourish just staggers me. JS has succeeded because everyone doing web development has to know it, not because of the package repository structure.
I may be having an uninformed opinion here, but Nim probably could have a more polished standard library. Maybe some adjustments of the boundry between core language and standard library as well.
Sheesh. Don't any of these people stop to think about what they propose for the reasons for disparate involvement between men and women in mathematically demanding fields? They talk like they've grasped the solution to an ancient puzzle and need to see it solved at any cost.
I find these armchair sociology murmurings really disappointing, but corruption works its way into everything. Van Rossum served his purpose long ago and he can spend the rest of his life mentoring black lesbo commies as far as I care.
If you think in terms of Projection, the feminists are accusing men of being "pushy" (as opposed to competitive). And all the clowns repeat the feminists...
“It’s not just about writing the code, but you have stand up for your code and defend your code, and there is a certain male attitude that is endemic in many projects where a woman would just not feel comfortable claiming that she is right,” he explained. “A guy who knows less than that woman might honestly believe [he is right], so they present a much more confident image.” In his experience, van Rossum sees incompetent men’s ideas gaining acceptance more often than merited because they are more forceful in how they present them.
I agree with him and this is not only a male versus female issue. Less confident males also shy away from confrontation and have their better ideas ignored.
Our social instincts tell us to follow strong, confident leaders. Codes of conduct will not change that. They can (if enforced) stop obvious things like insulting other people, but they can’t stop a confident person from writing with confidence, nor can they make a timid person sound confident.
Ironically, codes of conduct themselves are often adopted because they are championed by confident loudmouths whom others dare not oppose.
The hard truth is everyone involved in a project needs to be aware of how their own social instincts work and inspect proposals rationally instead of blindly following what feels like the right answer (what the most confident person is saying).
The thought that white men—and not our own failure to think rationally—are the problem and you can be a champion of the oppressed by fighting white men is ego boosting. The thought that you can be that champion simply by supporting a copy‐pasted code of conduct is also appealing.
The real issue is complicated and beyond most peoples’ understanding.
Even when you understand the real issue the answer is complicated and involves constant diligence. There’s no easy answer and certainly no big ego boost where you get to feel like a champion of the oppressed. That’s why so many fall head over heels for codes of conduct and battling oppressive white males.
I'm think the government and/or other organizations somehow arranged for Python to predominate, but wouldn't know exactly how they did it...
Python supplanted Perl, which was also probably made possible by the government (i.e. NASA, maybe DARPA etc). Look up the backgrounf of Guido van Rossum, he would have been part of the computer priesthood. :/
Lua is a good alternative to Python for uses where you can afford the cost of garbage collection. The standard library is tiny by comparison, but there are tons of third-party libraries and the binary distro is about 150 times smaller than Python.
What's the proper way to bring your local copy up to date with whatever the maintainer added since yesterday? (besides downloading a daily ZIP file) How do you view the code review comments? And what if you forget something in a commit message...
Many just don't really tell you these things, and are not eager to document configuration settings better either. :/
python is so easy to use that white guys don't need mentoring.
I hope he loves niggers asking what a variable is, or flow control, or a subroutine. Then after he explains it they stare dumbly, and ask the same question again.
I bought a cheap 24 hrs book for it because all the tools out there for AI are written in Python. Now i regret that.
I should just write everything in C and be done with it. It's all pretty much the same difference... it has the same/similar control structures as C. It's nothing compared having learned LISP... CAR, CDR !
He has been touting the superiority of his "white space" for years against much criticism from his peers.. Nobody buys these phony eleventh hour conversions after he has conveniently already stepped down as lead from his programming language of hate.
Rather, he thinks it’s important that men are educated about their biases. “[There are] some guys who are super defensive when you tell about this shit, but the majority of guys just don’t know any better,” he said. “The first time I heard the term unconscious bias was maybe five years ago and it was an eye opener.” It’s changed him, and he thinks it could change others.
This is the most annoying of it all. The mental illness has an artificial cause. He's been brainwashed.
What do you a expect from Dutchmyn, they are the closest thing to Scandinavians.
You remember Scandinavia, the home of the cuck and the land of the pussy-whipped-faggot, well the home of the white-knight AKA Dutchland is close nearby.
64 comments
0 u/Art1cBear 24 May 2019 02:41
Good to know. Fuck him.
0 u/lemon11 24 May 2019 02:43
And no wonder Python is institutionalized in schools, banks, and laws.
0 u/andrew_jackson 24 May 2019 03:16
I disagree and have my own thesis about this. I think that programming is cyclical. The first programming languages were procedural, mostly because people didn't know any better. Next came structured coding, which was a reaction to procedures. Then came object oriented, which itself was a reaction to structures. Then came Python, which was a reaction to the LISP style of the contemporary object languages like Java.
But why is Python so popular? I actually think that it's a pretty nifty little language, but feel that it's popularity is out of all proportion to it's actual utility. To be fair, it's support libraries are pretty banging. But again, why the excessive popularity?
And I think that the answer to this, lies in the fact that it's adherents don't really get languages like Java. Java to them, seems like a lot of work to do something simple, like achieve I/O and run a few algorithms on it. And perhaps it is. They want a language where they can come in, and make a couple of declarations, and write a modular program in like ten or fifteen lines that gets the job done.
And then it hit me - Python is merely the latest procedural language. It's a reaction against Object Oriented languages. I'm sure someone or other is going to bring up minute, pedantic reasons why Python isn't actually procedural, and I'm sure that when looked at across some domains it will seem not to be. Or it will have been constructed in such a way to solve the requirements of structured or object models, if only to eliminate objection and check off those particular boxes.
But when I try to code my own Python, the thing that I'm most reminded of is my time with Basic. I'm not creating structure or building objects, I'm simply importing libraries and then doing stuff. If I'm right, then programming is cyclical. The next step in the cycle would be a structured language that eliminates one or two of the major gripes about Python common among young coders, and then makes implementation of the major tasks of our day easier.
0 u/toobaditworks 24 May 2019 03:38
The next will be decentralized blockchain object oriented GPU assembly language. You don't even have to code. You just set up a node and then other people write the code for you.
0 u/Plavonica 24 May 2019 07:46
I did some coding in Kotlin, an android app language. You can graphically pick an object, say a button, place it and change it's various characteristics in a side panel. Then you go into the actual code and set up what it does when pressed.
Sort of like what you described, but you are doing all the work.
0 u/toobaditworks 24 May 2019 12:34
That's good for a starter language but eventually you'll want to get others to write the code for you to be a real programmer. I'm joking of course. :D
0 u/Plavonica 24 May 2019 19:14
It was for school. I've probably made programs in about 20ish languages now, all shitty school projects of course.
0 u/user9713 24 May 2019 03:49
IMO, Python is just an easy language to program in. It's also great for scripts / bots / web apps, which are pretty popular.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 04:36
I would take that, but see potential conspiracies everywhere now after what we have learned...
Similar ideas existed concerning BASIC and Pascal.
N. Wirth (the creator of Pascal) was very very influential... And more influential than you would think, he was editor of the Journal that published 'GOTO Considered Harmful' and edited the original title to the famous headline.
0 u/DinoRider 24 May 2019 12:24
Some of what you’re predicting is already happening in Python. It now has optional syntax for static typing and forcing named arguments. These are tedious features of older languages that help reduce bugs and keep things in order when building larger systems.
JavaScript is going through something similar. It’s another easy to use language with automatic type casting, but it also becomes unwieldy when you build large programs with it. Now that JavaScript is being used to build large software programmers are seeing the problems with loose typing and TypeScript is becoming popular.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 03:24
I wonder about that too...
0 u/watts2db 24 May 2019 02:51
C is better anyway
0 u/andrew_jackson 24 May 2019 03:07
On the bare metal. The way that God intended.
0 u/J_Darnley 24 May 2019 09:18
That doesn't say much since Python is probably the worst language.
0 u/libman 27 May 2019 00:29
Nim - Pythonic OSR syntax, optional GC, close to the speed of C.
0 u/watts2db 24 May 2019 02:54
I bet there are Goats now that have grown more proficient in python anyway than this jackass
its always good to take an asset from your enemy and use it against him very satisfying
0 u/Dortex 24 May 2019 02:58
It's like listening to someone tell you about how they found Scientology.
0 u/andrew_jackson 24 May 2019 03:06
That's poetic. "But guys, you don't understand how much better I feel after I've gone clear and gotten rid of all of those Thetans!"
0 u/jellyfish101 24 May 2019 02:59
Maybe he's interested in mentoring streetshitters. Because of traitors like him, we have low IQ streetshitters from india sitting as CEOs in Google & Microsoft. Bet, there were white people who had far more capability for the CEO positions, but liberals like him in recruitment board picked cheap low IQ streetshitters from india, because of their "muh divershity"shitskin.
0 u/cantaloupe6 24 May 2019 03:15
Mentor what - to be a cuck?
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 03:32
Is anybody interested in mutual-aid by peers or mentorship by elders?
I can't claim to be that good... But will help any beginner or intermediate if they need it.
0 u/meowski 24 May 2019 03:37
Sad. What a virtue signaling homo
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 03:55
I can understand sympathy for others, but nobody is unaware of this being a political stance nowadays.
0 u/facepaint 24 May 2019 04:48
He is slitting his own neck. They will find a reason to hate him (primarily because he is a successful white guy in power), and they will hang his ass out to dry. Probably a #MeToo moment. No matter how much virtue signally or help he provides will protect him. In fact having close associations to people who think like that will put him at significant risk.
He is earning his own demise.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 05:16
Slowly slowly at first, then suddenly.
0 u/WhatWouldOdinDo 28 May 2019 12:14
Don't worry, he recently had a spat with a landwhale over the standard library being worse than libraries from other people. The cunt suggested python should go the npm direction with having nothing out-of-the-box and having a big repository instead. He argued and eventually just up and left in a huff.
0 u/rcb [OP] 02 Jun 2019 02:08
Interesting...
0 u/WhatWouldOdinDo 02 Jun 2019 12:51
Source: http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/amber-brown-batteries-included-but.html?m=1
0 u/rcb [OP] 02 Jun 2019 15:13
I'm not sure what to think...
That is a very very very bad sign however, a woman with an opinion. Not so sure whether I should read the rest.
0 u/WhatWouldOdinDo 02 Jun 2019 17:02
I read the rest. She’s essentially saying that the community should provide the standard library, not the core python language team. What she doesn’t understand is that the entire reason for Python’s popularity hinges on getting up and running quickly.
Her perspective is also from someone wanting to maintain support for Python 2-only libraries, but they’ve had a literal decade to upgrade.
Also, wanting to transform a language ecosystem into the clusterfuck that Nodejs has allowed to flourish just staggers me. JS has succeeded because everyone doing web development has to know it, not because of the package repository structure.
0 u/rcb [OP] 02 Jun 2019 20:07
Therefore she wants to wreck all other legacy codebases. D may have swapped standard libraries but Python has enough trouble transitioning to v3.
0 u/rcb [OP] 02 Jun 2019 21:18
I may be having an uninformed opinion here, but Nim probably could have a more polished standard library. Maybe some adjustments of the boundry between core language and standard library as well.
0 u/psimonster 24 May 2019 05:30
When a programmer gets programmed.
Sheesh. Don't any of these people stop to think about what they propose for the reasons for disparate involvement between men and women in mathematically demanding fields? They talk like they've grasped the solution to an ancient puzzle and need to see it solved at any cost.
I find these armchair sociology murmurings really disappointing, but corruption works its way into everything. Van Rossum served his purpose long ago and he can spend the rest of his life mentoring black lesbo commies as far as I care.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 05:49
If you think in terms of Projection, the feminists are accusing men of being "pushy" (as opposed to competitive). And all the clowns repeat the feminists...
0 u/sinclair 24 May 2019 06:05
Then he's no one's father.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 06:14
Spouse: Kim Knapp (m. 2000)
Inventions: Python · ABC · Python for S60
Education: University of Amsterdam
Children: Orlijn Michiel Knapp-van Rossum (Son) <---
Siblings: Just van Rossum (Brother)
0 u/sinclair 24 May 2019 06:21
I should have put a question mark on that comment. :D
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 06:31
I wasn't aware of his background, it was a good question!
https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/guido-van-rossum-9533.php
It looks like he wasn't turned by the system but was a part of it all along...
0 u/DinoRider 24 May 2019 13:05
I agree with him and this is not only a male versus female issue. Less confident males also shy away from confrontation and have their better ideas ignored.
Our social instincts tell us to follow strong, confident leaders. Codes of conduct will not change that. They can (if enforced) stop obvious things like insulting other people, but they can’t stop a confident person from writing with confidence, nor can they make a timid person sound confident.
Ironically, codes of conduct themselves are often adopted because they are championed by confident loudmouths whom others dare not oppose.
The hard truth is everyone involved in a project needs to be aware of how their own social instincts work and inspect proposals rationally instead of blindly following what feels like the right answer (what the most confident person is saying).
The thought that white men—and not our own failure to think rationally—are the problem and you can be a champion of the oppressed by fighting white men is ego boosting. The thought that you can be that champion simply by supporting a copy‐pasted code of conduct is also appealing.
The real issue is complicated and beyond most peoples’ understanding.
Even when you understand the real issue the answer is complicated and involves constant diligence. There’s no easy answer and certainly no big ego boost where you get to feel like a champion of the oppressed. That’s why so many fall head over heels for codes of conduct and battling oppressive white males.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 16:47
Every communist dreams of becoming the Commisar. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePoliticalOfficer
0 u/psimonster 24 May 2019 20:14
I wonder whether he meant this very thing by the "code" hustled by those more confident than competent.
0 u/aCuriousYahnz 24 May 2019 18:11
Is this why it seems to be every prabeep's language of choice?
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 18:46
I'm think the government and/or other organizations somehow arranged for Python to predominate, but wouldn't know exactly how they did it...
Python supplanted Perl, which was also probably made possible by the government (i.e. NASA, maybe DARPA etc). Look up the backgrounf of Guido van Rossum, he would have been part of the computer priesthood. :/
0 u/white_male30 24 May 2019 20:01
Another one bites the dust
0 u/HoneyTrap1488 24 May 2019 20:58
Lua is a good alternative to Python for uses where you can afford the cost of garbage collection. The standard library is tiny by comparison, but there are tons of third-party libraries and the binary distro is about 150 times smaller than Python.
0 u/roznak 24 May 2019 21:14
I don't need mentoring, I will do it myself and better.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 21:16
Some of us have a harder time coming along...
But ultimately that is what it comes down to, can't be spoonfed all the time. :/
0 u/roznak 24 May 2019 23:17
But in the end they will need us when a spider is crawling their keyboard.
0 u/rcb [OP] 24 May 2019 23:33
Know of any good git tutorials?
What's the proper way to bring your local copy up to date with whatever the maintainer added since yesterday? (besides downloading a daily ZIP file) How do you view the code review comments? And what if you forget something in a commit message...
Many just don't really tell you these things, and are not eager to document configuration settings better either. :/
0 u/CarthOSassy 25 May 2019 04:13
Python is shit anyways. Use TypeScript, or JavaScript, or Bash, or fucking Java.
Anything written in python is unmaintainable. The entire python toolchain is wet garbage.
0 u/goalltheway 25 May 2019 16:29
White people are the only race that hates themselves
This is so weird.
0 u/postagency 26 May 2019 00:01
python is so easy to use that white guys don't need mentoring.
I hope he loves niggers asking what a variable is, or flow control, or a subroutine. Then after he explains it they stare dumbly, and ask the same question again.
Seems like a great use of time.
0 u/ThinkAboutIt1488 29 May 2019 22:59
I bought a cheap 24 hrs book for it because all the tools out there for AI are written in Python. Now i regret that. I should just write everything in C and be done with it. It's all pretty much the same difference... it has the same/similar control structures as C. It's nothing compared having learned LISP... CAR, CDR !
0 u/8NA5SWF92O 26 May 2019 00:29
He's lost his marbles. Fortunately, he also stepped down from his position as "benevolent dictator".
You might think whatever about the man, but at least Python's good.
0 u/libman 26 May 2019 22:54
This is why I've been strongly recommending the Nim programming language, which has many syntax similarities with Python.
0 u/WhatWouldOdinDo 28 May 2019 12:11
The Jew fears the Samurai. Learn Ruby instead (or a real language like C)
0 u/prattle 29 May 2019 13:50
He has been touting the superiority of his "white space" for years against much criticism from his peers.. Nobody buys these phony eleventh hour conversions after he has conveniently already stepped down as lead from his programming language of hate.
0 u/rcb [OP] 29 May 2019 16:26
Why does everyone hate (((lisp parentheses)))? Oh vey!
0 u/8NA5SWF92O 01 Jun 2019 02:29
He's lost to mental illness.
RIP
This is the most annoying of it all. The mental illness has an artificial cause. He's been brainwashed.
0 u/rcb [OP] 01 Jun 2019 02:39
What then shall we do, for poor guys who would have been programmers?
0 u/8NA5SWF92O 01 Jun 2019 17:09
Fortunately, Python has an official tutorial, and it is good, like the rest of its documentation.
https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/
0 u/rcb [OP] 01 Jun 2019 17:20
The solution to having the deck stacked against you is to tough it out alone? You might have a point, in some situations...
0 u/8NA5SWF92O 02 Jun 2019 00:23
Honestly speaking, as an engineer. You do have to learn things by yourself.
If you feel you can't, then even more so. In this industry, this skill (learning with minimum dependency on others) is at the core.
0 u/Laplace 01 Jun 2019 13:18
What do you a expect from Dutchmyn, they are the closest thing to Scandinavians.
You remember Scandinavia, the home of the cuck and the land of the pussy-whipped-faggot, well the home of the white-knight AKA Dutchland is close nearby.