This political correctness shit is getting out of hand.
Are we really supposed to care if someone gets offended on the internet?
The internet is not a "safe space", the world is not a "safe space". If someone hurt your feelings, suck it the fuck up. Even if it was intentional, suck it up and handle it instead of playing the victim.
This is the internet, and I’m here to learn about other people’s thoughts, not be protected from them.
[...]
Here is the problem with using offensiveness as a standard in a code of conduct:
* It judges the speaker by the listener’s opinions.
* Opinions are subjective and cannot be known by the speaker until after they speak.
I'm not even mad about stuff like that anymore. I'm just tired of it.
I couldn't give any less of a fuck about anyone's feelings when reading what I write, more so when it comes to code or anything else that underlies logic or some natural law.
Just don't be a dick. Although if someone is known for repeatedly not putting any effort into their questions and show no eagerness to learn from their mistakes, you're fair game.
I'm glad to have access to a world wide community I am free to share my ideas with and get (hopefully constructive) criticism.
And the more this 'safe space' mentality spreads the more I fear progress is hampered by restricting thoughts and ideas in exchange for coziness..
If your code sucks you should be told so and not pampered because it could hurt your feelings. Otherwise we will deal with the same shit over and over again.
Opinion-based arguments are something else though. Empirical, unambiguous data should be used to determine who's right, if possible to avoid emotional quarrel but that's just me.
Are we really supposed to care if someone gets offended on the internet?
Yes. If people are failing to get offended on the internet then it's clearly not working as intended. We need to figure out the source of the problem and submit a pull ticket.
This talks a great deal about offense and the right (or lack thereof) to 'not be offended'.
I think a far greater flaw with this code is the explicit statement that "we will not tolerate discrimination based on [...] technical ability".
The act of developing software explicitly requires technical ability. The machine will discriminate between correct and incorrect code. Their attempt to make technical competence irrelevant to the process of software development is inherently broken, and the fact that they suggest anything of the sort shows a deep lack of connection between the authors of the code and the subject matter they attempt to address.
This element you've raised could only be found in a policy so blatantly impractical that its selective enforcement is nearly guaranteed (and probably already desired).
....the potential for trolling is so tempting here, I mean I am not advocating such behavior of course, that would be bad, but what if someone were trying to push the shittiest possible code - I mean deliberatly shitty - there and go full SJW retard on them until it make it into whatever project.
I complete disagree with the path we are taking right now as developers as community.
Code of conducts, gender-only conferences and all other related things are turning the developer's world into a sort of unstable community.
If I say that one doesn't know how-to-code, later figuring out that is a her, I would probably be banned and burned by the SJW.
I also completely disagree with the necessity to have groups like "Girls Who Code", "Rails Girls", "Women Who Code", etc... why they don't come to the all other conferences instead of creating one women-only? This is a kind-of discrimination.
At this point, I would actually want to see if somebody will ever come up with a "Blacks that Code" or "Hispanic that Code", both of them are minorities in the IT world and no one gives a heck about them. Code of Conduct will drive us into the hell of not being anymore able to have a serious confrontation. Without confrontations the community will never evolve anymore, we will lose smart developers driving open source projects because an opinion offended someone and they got kicked out or, even worser, banned from the platform. This is going to be the future of Github.
While I generally agree with the sentiment of your comment, I think gender specific groups can be a good thing. Coding and suchlike is very much a male dominated field, and if we can give some extra support to encourage the fairer sex to get involved and make them feel welcome and more comfortable joining such a scene, that's gotta be a good thing.
Take Django Girls for instance. Just from looking at their site for a few minutes, the photos seem to show that it's not strictly a "male free zone" and their events seem to be part of larger Python related ones. They contribute tutorials, blogs, set up classes, and promote the Django platform.
I think I get the point you were making, but let's be careful not to lump these rabid feminazis that contribute nothing useful with genuine groups that benefit the wider community. And you're dead right about confrontations sometimes being necessary. Anyone who's read the Debian or Linux Kernel mailing lists should realise that :)
Code of conduct is used by sites like github and others to push an agenda while making it 'acceptable' for general populace who for the most part has become so fixated on social justice that they fail to see free speech component of the issue. Code of conduct is a solution to problem that does not exist. It's also a blunt tool to silence and bully people.
What made hacker / programming community great is its relentless drive to make things better. Sometimes it means telling stupid people that they are stupid, or saying that stupid idea is stupid. This also means that you have a rowdy culture (which I rather prefer) which some labeled 'bro' culture. I think there is a distinction to be made here, 'bro' culture is very different from 'hacker' culture.
Hacker / programming community also has what's called natural order. Someone who contributes a lot to the project, which hundreds may benefit from, should be listened to. Have you seen House MD? While it gives no one the right to be jerks, I think immense contribution they make should afford them some leeway in dealing with the counter-productive or actions unrelated to benefit of the coding project. SJWs in general decided to jump in on the fray, using the highground they achieved on the platform field (e.g. github.com). What they are wrong about is that they believe SJWing is what made coding communities like github great. It's not. None of the coders posted their code thinking it will make everyone safe and sound from offense. They coded and pushed code because it's their passion.
SJWs are conflating the economic success of San Francisco to their dogma - it's wrong. Their whole stinking edifice will come crumbling down when people realize this is a load of crap.
Oh crap. Seems like a small issue but big in programming world. In the simplest situation, someone need to think three times to say that some other's code is wrong, in any manner, because it can offend them? Err...
16 comments
48 u/ShowMeYourKitties 23 Jul 2015 06:54
This political correctness shit is getting out of hand.
Are we really supposed to care if someone gets offended on the internet?
The internet is not a "safe space", the world is not a "safe space". If someone hurt your feelings, suck it the fuck up. Even if it was intentional, suck it up and handle it instead of playing the victim.
Fuck all of this so much.
13 u/vaccjoe 23 Jul 2015 11:21
The article puts it nicely
I'm not even mad about stuff like that anymore. I'm just tired of it.
I couldn't give any less of a fuck about anyone's feelings when reading what I write, more so when it comes to code or anything else that underlies logic or some natural law.
Just don't be a dick. Although if someone is known for repeatedly not putting any effort into their questions and show no eagerness to learn from their mistakes, you're fair game.
I'm glad to have access to a world wide community I am free to share my ideas with and get (hopefully constructive) criticism.
And the more this 'safe space' mentality spreads the more I fear progress is hampered by restricting thoughts and ideas in exchange for coziness.. If your code sucks you should be told so and not pampered because it could hurt your feelings. Otherwise we will deal with the same shit over and over again.
Opinion-based arguments are something else though. Empirical, unambiguous data should be used to determine who's right, if possible to avoid emotional quarrel but that's just me.
1 u/Balrogic 24 Jul 2015 04:38
Yes. If people are failing to get offended on the internet then it's clearly not working as intended. We need to figure out the source of the problem and submit a pull ticket.
15 u/tame 23 Jul 2015 08:01
This talks a great deal about offense and the right (or lack thereof) to 'not be offended'.
I think a far greater flaw with this code is the explicit statement that "we will not tolerate discrimination based on [...] technical ability".
The act of developing software explicitly requires technical ability. The machine will discriminate between correct and incorrect code. Their attempt to make technical competence irrelevant to the process of software development is inherently broken, and the fact that they suggest anything of the sort shows a deep lack of connection between the authors of the code and the subject matter they attempt to address.
6 u/plemer 23 Jul 2015 08:10
This element you've raised could only be found in a policy so blatantly impractical that its selective enforcement is nearly guaranteed (and probably already desired).
1 u/origin206 26 Jul 2015 00:02
So basically they're telling everyone on GitHub to accept shit code. Nice.
The stupidity is unthinkable.
1 u/Gargilius 29 Jul 2015 04:14
....the potential for trolling is so tempting here, I mean I am not advocating such behavior of course, that would be bad, but what if someone were trying to push the shittiest possible code - I mean deliberatly shitty - there and go full SJW retard on them until it make it into whatever project.
14 u/taxation_is_slavery 23 Jul 2015 06:55
Programmers flocking to central repositories has given undeserved power to sites like github. Fuck 'em.
6 u/ChicagoSunroof 23 Jul 2015 06:52
It's not for me either! People don't have the right not to be offended. Period.
6 u/bontoJR 23 Jul 2015 14:57
I complete disagree with the path we are taking right now as developers as community.
Code of conducts, gender-only conferences and all other related things are turning the developer's world into a sort of unstable community. If I say that one doesn't know how-to-code, later figuring out that is a her, I would probably be banned and burned by the SJW.
I also completely disagree with the necessity to have groups like "Girls Who Code", "Rails Girls", "Women Who Code", etc... why they don't come to the all other conferences instead of creating one women-only? This is a kind-of discrimination.
At this point, I would actually want to see if somebody will ever come up with a "Blacks that Code" or "Hispanic that Code", both of them are minorities in the IT world and no one gives a heck about them. Code of Conduct will drive us into the hell of not being anymore able to have a serious confrontation. Without confrontations the community will never evolve anymore, we will lose smart developers driving open source projects because an opinion offended someone and they got kicked out or, even worser, banned from the platform. This is going to be the future of Github.
2 u/CptCmdrAwesome 23 Jul 2015 17:53
While I generally agree with the sentiment of your comment, I think gender specific groups can be a good thing. Coding and suchlike is very much a male dominated field, and if we can give some extra support to encourage the fairer sex to get involved and make them feel welcome and more comfortable joining such a scene, that's gotta be a good thing.
Take Django Girls for instance. Just from looking at their site for a few minutes, the photos seem to show that it's not strictly a "male free zone" and their events seem to be part of larger Python related ones. They contribute tutorials, blogs, set up classes, and promote the Django platform.
I think I get the point you were making, but let's be careful not to lump these rabid feminazis that contribute nothing useful with genuine groups that benefit the wider community. And you're dead right about confrontations sometimes being necessary. Anyone who's read the Debian or Linux Kernel mailing lists should realise that :)
4 u/FFX01 24 Jul 2015 01:37
From the article:
This is all anyone needs to know right here. I've been living my life this way for a few years, and everything is great.
2 u/leixiaotie 24 Jul 2015 04:40
Could someone ELI5 me what is code of conduct and why it is bad in github?
1 u/dchem 29 Jul 2015 20:34
Code of conduct is used by sites like github and others to push an agenda while making it 'acceptable' for general populace who for the most part has become so fixated on social justice that they fail to see free speech component of the issue. Code of conduct is a solution to problem that does not exist. It's also a blunt tool to silence and bully people.
What made hacker / programming community great is its relentless drive to make things better. Sometimes it means telling stupid people that they are stupid, or saying that stupid idea is stupid. This also means that you have a rowdy culture (which I rather prefer) which some labeled 'bro' culture. I think there is a distinction to be made here, 'bro' culture is very different from 'hacker' culture.
Hacker / programming community also has what's called natural order. Someone who contributes a lot to the project, which hundreds may benefit from, should be listened to. Have you seen House MD? While it gives no one the right to be jerks, I think immense contribution they make should afford them some leeway in dealing with the counter-productive or actions unrelated to benefit of the coding project. SJWs in general decided to jump in on the fray, using the highground they achieved on the platform field (e.g. github.com). What they are wrong about is that they believe SJWing is what made coding communities like github great. It's not. None of the coders posted their code thinking it will make everyone safe and sound from offense. They coded and pushed code because it's their passion.
SJWs are conflating the economic success of San Francisco to their dogma - it's wrong. Their whole stinking edifice will come crumbling down when people realize this is a load of crap.
0 u/leixiaotie 30 Jul 2015 03:20
Oh crap. Seems like a small issue but big in programming world. In the simplest situation, someone need to think three times to say that some other's code is wrong, in any manner, because it can offend them? Err...