A lot of programmers claim to write in [insert trendy language name here] when they mostly are just dabbling in it or writing personal tools and scripts in it. The reason the top languages stay relatively unchanged is due to those languages being the backbones of real world programs and systems. Java keeps its stranglehold as the top language because it is used in many financial systems that will not be going away any time soon. C and C++ are what most real programs are written in and will also hold on forever. Up and comers like Python only take a top spot because they get a lot of play in very small systems or are used as glue for systems written in other languages. It's kind of artificial to say Python has reached a true first-class system language status when it is only used as parts of the larger machine instead of the primary language. The rest of the languages on the list are all just here and there languages with the popularity driven by certain sectors or niche capabilities. No one is writing the next big game in Rust. No one is using Objective-C outside of Apple development. Visual Basic is just legacy code maintenance. This Tiobe list has always been skewed and hardly reflects the true state of programming language use. I've never liked the way it portrays things when there are obvious flaws in it.
Well, we do need something to replace C/C++. In most projects it cuts the productivity in half (or worse) for no tangible gain. Rust, D, and Nim are strong contenders.
Python wasn't meant to be a "system language", but a good easy scripting language for the masses.
Why would C/C++ need to be replaced? Only programmers who lack in depth skills would be slowed down by these languages. Scripting languages are good for scripting, and only scripting. They lack the power to do things at the low levels and have no user interface other than the command line (generally). They are good for automating administrative tasks and cobbling together some simple routines for repetitive work, but they can't build a complete end-user focused program.
Ultimately a language's worth is determined by how it can be used to build programs and systems that anyone can use and does the things they need it to do in a seamless (to the user) manner. No end user wants to muck about with the command line. No end user wants to have a clunky interface that requires them to try to remember complicated commands or draconian rules. End users want simple and understandable interfaces. Languages like C/C++/C#, Java, Visual Basic and Delphi can give them that with ease because they are fully fledged languages with the ability to do heavy lifting and make usable interfaces for humans. To a different extent, the combo of HTML, CSS and JS have done the same, albeit these "languages" are extremely limited on access to local resources and operating system functions. They are second class languages for that reason.
Python and other languages like it lack the full coverage that Java, C langs and even VB offer because they must use a bunch of cobbled together projects to build UIs or make the program self contained and easily installed. Sure those other languages mean some form of vendor lock in, but it's time to put to rest the silly notion that that is a bad thing. Vendor lock in allows a language to mature and strengthen. Linux would not have gone far if it didn't have the strong foundation of vendor locked UNIX to build on and Microsoft Windows to copy for features. Linux would have stayed a curiosity aimed at hardcore enthusiasts if it didn't have a path to walk in that was made by vendor lock in. FOSS spread the lies that closed source is bad. Open source has suffered because of that lie. People want to have a stable and mature product and vendor lock in gives them that (except for MS these days who fucked up by having pajeets do the coding and rapid release schedules). The same goes for languages. Go or Groovy won't keep me employed, but C, Java and C# will. Hate it all you want, but that's reality. I can go get a Java job with ease today or ten years down the road. Can the same thing hold true with Python?
There's nothing wrong with a good old BASIC language. VB doesn't deserve its bad reputation. It's more capable of building a proper end user focused program than Python is. That makes it stronger than Python.
Anyone extremly annoyed of "new languages" popping up every motnth that are there to "solve" an issue that is in most cases due to
I (programmer) am not able to type ten more charactters on the keyboard and wish a shorter typing
I (programmer) am stupid enough to use unsafe logic and/or write memory leaking code
I (programmer) have no idea of what I am doing with Threads and have random faults
I (company) want to LOCK IN programmes into MY ecosystem, so, let's invent MY LANGUAGE (google, apple)
Someone just pop up and create a NEW language that "solves" one of the above by using weird paradigms or convoluted logic.
Does it solve THAT specific issues, yes.... is it total crap for the remaining part.... yes... are the fanboy paid to shine ligght on that issue only, yes.
And then there are the "useful idiots", always have been there, that parrot the fanboy
How I hate the useful idiot that parrot the denigratory words for Java that Microsoft has spread around the internet....
You get it. Bad programmers like alternative languages because they don't have to learn anything real and can just keep moving their pathetic skills from one trendy new language to another. It reminds me of how women work in tech. They don't want to go deep. They just want to sound forward thinking. The core languages will live on a long time because they are solid. That's good for real programmers because we can truly immerse ourselves in them and become experts rather than follow the bullshit trendy languages that will go away soon.
8 comments
0 u/Wiserman 06 Oct 2019 03:20
Problem is, to use a language you actually need to learn it first.
0 u/Morbo 06 Oct 2019 03:45
A lot of programmers claim to write in [insert trendy language name here] when they mostly are just dabbling in it or writing personal tools and scripts in it. The reason the top languages stay relatively unchanged is due to those languages being the backbones of real world programs and systems. Java keeps its stranglehold as the top language because it is used in many financial systems that will not be going away any time soon. C and C++ are what most real programs are written in and will also hold on forever. Up and comers like Python only take a top spot because they get a lot of play in very small systems or are used as glue for systems written in other languages. It's kind of artificial to say Python has reached a true first-class system language status when it is only used as parts of the larger machine instead of the primary language. The rest of the languages on the list are all just here and there languages with the popularity driven by certain sectors or niche capabilities. No one is writing the next big game in Rust. No one is using Objective-C outside of Apple development. Visual Basic is just legacy code maintenance. This Tiobe list has always been skewed and hardly reflects the true state of programming language use. I've never liked the way it portrays things when there are obvious flaws in it.
0 u/libman [OP] 06 Oct 2019 14:33
Well, we do need something to replace C/C++. In most projects it cuts the productivity in half (or worse) for no tangible gain. Rust, D, and Nim are strong contenders.
Python wasn't meant to be a "system language", but a good easy scripting language for the masses.
0 u/Morbo 06 Oct 2019 15:15
Why would C/C++ need to be replaced? Only programmers who lack in depth skills would be slowed down by these languages. Scripting languages are good for scripting, and only scripting. They lack the power to do things at the low levels and have no user interface other than the command line (generally). They are good for automating administrative tasks and cobbling together some simple routines for repetitive work, but they can't build a complete end-user focused program.
Ultimately a language's worth is determined by how it can be used to build programs and systems that anyone can use and does the things they need it to do in a seamless (to the user) manner. No end user wants to muck about with the command line. No end user wants to have a clunky interface that requires them to try to remember complicated commands or draconian rules. End users want simple and understandable interfaces. Languages like C/C++/C#, Java, Visual Basic and Delphi can give them that with ease because they are fully fledged languages with the ability to do heavy lifting and make usable interfaces for humans. To a different extent, the combo of HTML, CSS and JS have done the same, albeit these "languages" are extremely limited on access to local resources and operating system functions. They are second class languages for that reason.
Python and other languages like it lack the full coverage that Java, C langs and even VB offer because they must use a bunch of cobbled together projects to build UIs or make the program self contained and easily installed. Sure those other languages mean some form of vendor lock in, but it's time to put to rest the silly notion that that is a bad thing. Vendor lock in allows a language to mature and strengthen. Linux would not have gone far if it didn't have the strong foundation of vendor locked UNIX to build on and Microsoft Windows to copy for features. Linux would have stayed a curiosity aimed at hardcore enthusiasts if it didn't have a path to walk in that was made by vendor lock in. FOSS spread the lies that closed source is bad. Open source has suffered because of that lie. People want to have a stable and mature product and vendor lock in gives them that (except for MS these days who fucked up by having pajeets do the coding and rapid release schedules). The same goes for languages. Go or Groovy won't keep me employed, but C, Java and C# will. Hate it all you want, but that's reality. I can go get a Java job with ease today or ten years down the road. Can the same thing hold true with Python?
0 u/Wiserman 06 Oct 2019 03:55
Basic, use it.
0 u/Morbo 06 Oct 2019 15:20
There's nothing wrong with a good old BASIC language. VB doesn't deserve its bad reputation. It's more capable of building a proper end user focused program than Python is. That makes it stronger than Python.
0 u/privacy_first 06 Oct 2019 07:27
Anyone extremly annoyed of "new languages" popping up every motnth that are there to "solve" an issue that is in most cases due to
Someone just pop up and create a NEW language that "solves" one of the above by using weird paradigms or convoluted logic.
Does it solve THAT specific issues, yes.... is it total crap for the remaining part.... yes... are the fanboy paid to shine ligght on that issue only, yes.
And then there are the "useful idiots", always have been there, that parrot the fanboy
How I hate the useful idiot that parrot the denigratory words for Java that Microsoft has spread around the internet....
0 u/Morbo 06 Oct 2019 15:19
You get it. Bad programmers like alternative languages because they don't have to learn anything real and can just keep moving their pathetic skills from one trendy new language to another. It reminds me of how women work in tech. They don't want to go deep. They just want to sound forward thinking. The core languages will live on a long time because they are solid. That's good for real programmers because we can truly immerse ourselves in them and become experts rather than follow the bullshit trendy languages that will go away soon.