If someone with 5-10 years of experience in something, be it Java or a specific database, is called 'Senior'....

17    30 Jul 2015 19:20 by u/ancientgoat

If someone with 5-10 years of experience in something, be it Java or a specific database, is called 'Senior'​. As in 'Senior Java Developer'. What then do you call someone who has been programming Java for 20 years, and who has been programming for decades before that? I notice the higher paying jobs advertise for 'Senior'​ people, but isn't there a level above that?

30 comments

28

What then do you call someone who has been programming Java for 20 years, and who has been programming for decades before that?

Outdated!

6

Really? Why? What if one is currently programming on some of the latest atuff Aurora, AWS, docker, etc. That's not outdated, at least, in a literal sense.

10

In software more than 5 years of experience is irrelevant. The technology has advanced so much that the older techniques might even be worse than the newer ones.

What is important is that you demonstrate that you are up to date with the newest technologies.

5

Interesting statement. Many of existing apps for large, high paying, companies have been running for more than 5 years. And moving them to newer technolgies may require knowledge of both. Another example of more than 5 years being useful, is the build of of knowledge, such as obscure Unix commands, of which the process of learning almost never ends. Think of EMacs, no one is going to learn Emacs in a week and be any good at it. Anyway, you are correct in that most (younger) people, I feel, think the same way you do.

2

Tell that to all those employers looking for COBOL experience.

Minimum 30 years experience.

4

You're not completely wrong, but I think you're also exagerrating.

2

Yes I am exaggerating, but I have 3+ decades of software development experience. I don't count the years anymore.

But software experience is not something you can accumulate. Lots of new technologies come out, and techniques that used to work great does not really work anymore in these times.

4

When it comes to the tools - sure. But don't you think you're getting better at more abstract skills? Say, project management, planning, reading people or assessing their talent, managing a team or handling coworkers...

0

… Not obsolete.

12

Guru, then legend

11

What then do you call someone who has been programming Java for 20 years

Hard to say, my first guess would be "a masochist" ;)

10

Dinosaur

8

I think the reality is after "Senior" you would be made a Team Lead probably...and that's where it stops unless you get into management. At least that's been my, and other's I've talked with, experience.

8

Ive seen 'Principle' and 'Architect' both used.

4

A grey beard

4

I think the term "Senior" is subjective.

3

In industries that involve programming, having more older experience is far often less valuable than having up to date experience. Someone with 5 years of experience could be just as valuable as someone with 20 years experience. Especially if the latter hasn't kept up with new tech.

1

That didn't really answer the original question. Kinda like people that assume a programming error, rather then "Reading the error, and fixing the error".

2

I wasn't answering the original question. I was giving you information that affects the question.

2

What then do you call someone who has been programming Java for 20 years, and who has been programming for decades before that?

A 20-year veteran who still writes code daily is, most likely, not a manager. Never have I met anyone this experienced who wasn't a manager.

2

Most people haven't. We do exist, I know a few.

0

I am one of those guys that always avoided leadership. I have seen what happens, you become a leader and you lose the development touch. You changed from a developer into a politician. A couple of years down the road you lose touch with development reality.

1

In large enterprises, there is sometimes a ladder that rises from senior, to staff, to senior staff, to architect, to senior architect, to principal. It roughly follows the same ladder that you see in the executive world, with Director equivalent to staff-level and architect equivalent to Vice President, but for "individual" contributors.

1

"expert"

0

Master.